Blower motor restoration thread (1 Viewer)

[Spook50]

So I'm working on restoring an OEM Toyota blower motor that I got from Georg @orangefj45 a while ago. Idea being that the aftermarket ones are all absolute junk. Only four years after installing a brand new Rockauto (Four Seasons I think it was) blower motor and mine is absolute screaming, putting out very little air, and regularly pops the circuit breaker (yet when I measure current through the breaker it was only pulling 16.6 amps when on high, with the rear also on high and the A/C running. A bit stumped on that one. New and factory original breakers both popping after just a few minutes, though faster in the warmer weather. I suspect something is causing excess heat buildup in the fuse panel area, though I have no clue what it would be). I've come to the conclusion that OEM is the only way to go, BUT obviously with all the wear and tear these motors have seen, plus the fact that they're not available new anymore, a method needs to be developed to restore them and buy more life out of them. The blower I got from Georg will be my guinea pig, and I'll be keeping my eyes open for other 60/62 series motors that I can collect and use as parts sources for housings, commutators, bushings (the bronze bushings. Not the carbon bushes which can be replaced with new. I'll talk more about these). So far I've dismantled my OEM motor, got the rotor in my ultrasonic right now running a cleaning cycle. I want to clean and lubricate the bronze bushings, but for the life of me I don't know if they're sintered or just dry bushings. If they're dry I have an idea for a long term solution. If they're sintered I'd like to figure out the best long-lasting lube for them that'll keep them quiet and keep the motor operating at maximum efficiency for the long term. Ideally I'd like to reach 5-year maintenance intervals for restored OEM motors.

The idea behind this thread is to document my progress and findings with restoring OEM front blower motors. The procedure would be the same for rears as well, with minor differences. This is meant as a depository as much for myself as for anyone else looking to retain their OEM blower motors.

 

[Spook50]

A few pictures to start with:

The rotor removed from the housing. I blew off the loose carbon dust but still dirty. Good opportunity to give it a bath in my ultrasonic cleaner.

Closeup of the commutator. At some point a piece of grit or something had gotten caught between the commutator and the brushes and worn a deep score mark. Not sure if I have enough material to get rid of it completely, but I'm going to try.

Taking a bath in the cleaner. Not being sure exactly what materials are used to produce these I didn't want to risk damaging anything with harsh degreasers, so I used distilled water with Dawn dishwashing soap. Another cleaning cycle with just distilled water to rinse it and everything looked good.

After rinsing, blowing it off, then baking at 200* F to make sure it's good and dry and it looks much better.

A closeup of the commutator after its bath. Here we get a good idea of the extent of the damage. Again, not sure how much luck I'll have resurfacing it, but I'll take it as far as I can comfortably go.

 

[Spook50]

One last shot before I pack it in for the night. 4:30 wake-up for work comes early tomorrow.

This is a general idea of how thick the copper on the commutator is. As you can see it's not super thick, about 0.75mm where the brushes didn't wear it down, but hopefully that'll leave enough to get some more life out of it yet.

 

[Skniper]

Pretty sure the contacts in my original blower motor were worn beyond rescue. I saved it though just in case I wanted to investigate it being fixable. The replacement motor is definitely noisier, mine's running fine though so far. Be interesting to break down an aftermarket motor and compare internals to the OEM.

Good endeavor.

 

[NookShneer]

Funny. A few were us talking about someone coming up with a brushless unit that would retrofit. Not sure what that would take just a few of us chatting.

There was a thread a while back about replacement fan brushes for the motor if I remember correctly. I’ll try to find it.

Added:

Blower Repairs

83 blower motor brushes

Toyota says they are discontinued. Has any body recently acquired any of these?

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Spook50]

Funny. A few were us talking about someone coming up with a brushless unit that would retrofit. Not sure what that would take just a few of us chatting.

There was a thread a while back about replacement fan brushes for the motor if I remember correctly. I’ll try to find it.

Brushless would be the ultimate solution. It would requite a whole different motor retrofitted to the mounting plate and support for the squirrel cage though. A brushed motor can't simply be converted to brushless. New brushes are just a small step in the right direction. Unfortunately if the commutator is badly worn and/or damaged, brushes won't do much good. I'd like to find a way to completely restore the commutators, but that would require some machining, which I'm not set up for at this point. I'd love an excuse to invest in a bench-top lathe though.

 

[OSS]

Don't want to be the Debbie Downer here... but once a commutator is worn too far, the motor is toast. The commutator is a non replaceable wear item.

 

[Spook50]

Don't want to be the Debbie Downer here... but once a commutator is worn too far, the motor is toast. The commutator is a non replaceable wear item.

There actually is a way, but basically you're right. There are no "drop-in" commutators for these types of motors. If you have basic machining tools you can make a replacement commutator, though that involves milling, epoxy, soldering, and doing your own undercutting. It's a lot of time and work, so if there are new motors available of good quality, it's not worth it. In the case of our blower motors though, I think it could be worth the investment. It's obviously an experiment if I were to try it, and I wouldn't invest in marketing something like that until I have my voltage regulator project completed and selling. Right now I'm experimenting on my own motor for my own use, and just sharing my experiences as I go.

@Skniper do you still have your old worn motor? If yes and you want to offload it I'll pay shipping if you're willing to send it to me. Don't need the squirrel cage, just the motor.

 

[Spook50]

Fidgeting a bit more with the rotor tonight I dug out my vernier calipers and took some measurements of the commutator. Where it isn't worn, the total diameter is 23mm, and at the bottom of the deep groove the diameter is 22.3mm. So really only 0.35mm of wear at the worst, most damaged point over 32+ years of use (it came out of a donor FJ60 Georg has. Not sure how long it'd been sitting though). From what I can see the copper (when new) is a 0.8mm thick layer (sectioned of course) laid over the mica support. It may actually be thicker. I'll scrape into the end of it where I don't have to worry about brush contact and see if that's for sure the case. If it is, then less than half the thickness of the copper being worn down after likely heavy use is a pretty good sign. Got my kids tomorrow after work for the evening, so I'll do some more playing around on Thursday after work. Meantime, I've got a new pair of brushes coming from Roger Brown (4Crawler) and a couple other different sizes coming from Amazon that, if they match the Roger Brown ones I'll be able to order in bulk if I decide to go down that road. There's also a mod to do to the brush holder that's detailed here that I'll be doing to use the 4Crawler or Amazon brushes: Blower Repairs
What I don't agree with is using oil to lubricate the bronze bushings in this case. Maybe if they were removed and "re-sintered" with the exact oil they were manufacture with they would last much longer, but they can't be removed without damage, so that's out. I tried using powdered dry graphite in the bushings of the rear blower motor a couple months ago and it's worked very well so far. What I'm curious to is how long it will take before it starts making noise or slowing down. Unfortunately the rotor in my rear motor is very slightly bent (not enough to prevent use) and the source of some slight noise. I think it it were straight and true it would be completely silent as it wouldn't be trying to shift around in the bushings. Once I get a dial gauge I can remove it again and get it completely straight next time I feel like messing with it.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Fidgeting a bit more with the rotor tonight I dug out my vernier calipers and took some measurements of the commutator. Where it isn't worn, the total diameter is 23mm, and at the bottom of the deep groove the diameter is 22.3mm. So really only 0.35mm of wear at the worst, most damaged point over 32+ years of use (it came out of a donor FJ60 Georg has. Not sure how long it'd been sitting though). From what I can see the copper (when new) is a 0.8mm thick layer (sectioned of course) laid over the mica support. It may actually be thicker. I'll scrape into the end of it where I don't have to worry about brush contact and see if that's for sure the case. If it is, then less than half the thickness of the copper being worn down after likely heavy use is a pretty good sign. Got my kids tomorrow after work for the evening, so I'll do some more playing around on Thursday after work. Meantime, I've got a new pair of brushes coming from Roger Brown (4Crawler) and a couple other different sizes coming from Amazon that, if they match the Roger Brown ones I'll be able to order in bulk if I decide to go down that road. There's also a mod to do to the brush holder that's detailed here that I'll be doing to use the 4Crawler or Amazon brushes: Blower Repairs
What I don't agree with is using oil to lubricate the bronze bushings in this case. Maybe if they were removed and "re-sintered" with the exact oil they were manufacture with they would last much longer, but they can't be removed without damage, so that's out. I tried using powdered dry graphite in the bushings of the rear blower motor a couple months ago and it's worked very well so far. What I'm curious to is how long it will take before it starts making noise or slowing down. Unfortunately the rotor in my rear motor is very slightly bent (not enough to prevent use) and the source of some slight noise. I think it it were straight and true it would be completely silent as it wouldn't be trying to shift around in the bushings. Once I get a dial gauge I can remove it again and get it completely straight next time I feel like messing with it.

Dug up this slightly old thread as I am rebuilding my blower motor (luckily commutator is fine).

Why do you disagree with oiling the bushing, when it seems to have a felt oil reservoir around it for precisely that purpose?

Thanks

 

[Michael Hanson]

Interested too.I have kept alot of old parts, including fan motors , my wife and kids wish I would through away.

 

[Spook50]

Dug up this slightly old thread as I am rebuilding my blower motor (luckily commutator is fine).

Why do you disagree with oiling the bushing, when it seems to have a felt oil reservoir around it for precisely that purpose?

Thanks

To be honest I think it's a waste of effort for no return. I'm fairly certain the bushings are made of sintered bronze, but over such an extended period of time they dry out. I've experimented with different oils and treating the bushings (including warming the parts in an oven to hopefully open up the pores of the bushings and draw oil back in). I did manage to silence the motor with some 3-In-1 electric motor oil using the heat process, but within a month the bushing squeak had returned and never went away.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

To be honest I think it's a waste of effort for no return. I'm fairly certain the bushings are made of sintered bronze, but over such an extended period of time they dry out. I've experimented with different oils and treating the bushings (including warming the parts in an oven to hopefully open up the pores of the bushings and draw oil back in). I did manage to silence the motor with some 3-In-1 electric motor oil using the heat process, but within a month the bushing squeak had returned and never went away.

Thanks for the reply. I guess your bushing or shaft must be slightly worn or galled. I have two here, both of which are new to me, so I'll put in a reasonable amount of 10W-40 and run with it.

Thanks

EO

 

[Spook50]

Thanks for the reply. I guess your bushing or shaft must be slightly worn or galled. I have two here, both of which are new to me, so I'll put in a reasonable amount of 10W-40 and run with it.

Thanks

EO

Are you saying new bushings? If they're new, the sintering should still be good and won't need any extra lubrication. I suspect the reason they're sintered instead of just using a regular oil soak is due to the buildup of dust and (from the brushes) carbon that can be drawn to any moist location and lead to an abrasive effect and greatly accelerate wear.

 

[franklin40]

for what it’s worth here’s what i did with my blower motor. start at post 603

Builds - fj62 gets a lift

@Spook50 got my window relay working perfectly. sorry about the messy bench in the background. that’s mostly my “to do” box of fj62 stuff and tools not put away properly 🙄 window up… window down… window up…

forum.ih8mud.com

this won’t help with worn commutators but it’s a nice fix if the brushes are just worn out. works great again

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi,Commutators can be ground down Smooth.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Are you saying new bushings? If they're new, the sintering should still be good and won't need any extra lubrication. I suspect the reason they're sintered instead of just using a regular oil soak is due to the buildup of dust and (from the brushes) carbon that can be drawn to any moist location and lead to an abrasive effect and greatly accelerate wear.

Ah sorry, I meant that I am not familiar with either fan unit - one is the original from my 60, which I drove for just a few short journeys before dismantling. The other was bought from a breaker and I have never heard it running at all.

I'm going to oil the felt pads, wipe away any excess and run it.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

for what it’s worth here’s what i did with my blower motor. start at post 603

Builds - fj62 gets a lift

@Spook50 got my window relay working perfectly. sorry about the messy bench in the background. that’s mostly my “to do” box of fj62 stuff and tools not put away properly 🙄 window up… window down… window up…

forum.ih8mud.com

this won’t help with worn commutators but it’s a nice fix if the brushes are just worn out. works great again

I have ordered some brushes from Aliexpress which look to be the correct configuration, with tails coming from the narrow side rather than the end. They are very slightly too large so will need to be ground down to size, but won't require making a mess of the brush holders with a soldering iron. Let's see what turns up...

 

[Spook50]

Ah sorry, I meant that I am not familiar with either fan unit - one is the original from my 60, which I drove for just a few short journeys before dismantling. The other was bought from a breaker and I have never heard it running at all.

I'm going to oil the felt pads, wipe away any excess and run it.

Well definitely give it a shot. I had experimented with thinner oils in hopes they would penetrate into the bushings better, but never had any long term success. If I can ever invest in a reasonable quality benchtop lathe & mill combination my hope is that I can finally work out a legitimate, long term solution.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

I have ordered some brushes from Aliexpress which look to be the correct configuration, with tails coming from the narrow side rather than the end. They are very slightly too large so will need to be ground down to size, but won't require making a mess of the brush holders with a soldering iron. Let's see what turns up...

The brushes arrived from China. A few seconds on a water-wetted wet-stone and they fit perfectly.

Here's the link in case anyone wants to order these brushes.

EO