Blew the Front Diff (Broken Ring and Pinion)

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I was talking about the axle seals and bearings. IMHO it would be silly not to attend to them while you have the axle apart.

IIRC the master install kit for the diff is about $200 which includes all the bearings and seals for the diff, am I mistaken?

When you say solid crush sleeve do you mean a machined sleeve?

I was mistaken, I thought the master kits did not include the carrier bearings, but according to justdifferentials site they do.

I do mean machined sleeve when I said solid crush sleeve.

I love the write ups on http://gearinstalls.com/ You can learn a ton about gear installations. I came close to doing my own due to the logic and detail on Zuks site but due to tools, time, and 50 other cruiser projects I let JT's do my front.
 
I've read that one a thousand times! Guess it's still working and being abused regularly! Good to know.

That's funny. I did not ever even think about that writeup until Stan blew up his diff and was searching for the quickest way to get it back on the road. Recently, I had to actually have ZUK pull the diff when the ARB took a crap on me (not the orings). I guess I have some bad luck and the ARB required pretty much a fully rebuild. Not a cheap fix, but it appears to be back in good working order. ZUK is awesome to deal with and was extremely generous helping me get the issues all figured out.
 
So, that's never good.

Got a few projects that I need done before 100s in the Hills. But I should have enough time to get this apart and back up and running as well.

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So does the ARB locker put the 4 pinion and 2 pinion back on even playing field? (Sorry in advance for hijacking this jetliner)
 
The ARB improves over the 4 pinion also. ARB > OEM 4pinion > OEM 2pinion and I think the gap between OEM 4 and 2 is a little closer than comes across on the forum. I believe as more newer ones get banged on you will continue to see 4 pinions fail closer to the rate of 2 pinions (which is still low in the big picture). Only time will tell, but for the sake of guys with the newer ones I hope I am incorrect.
 
The ARB improves over the 4 pinion also. ARB > OEM 4pinion > OEM 2pinion and I think the gap between OEM 4 and 2 is a little closer than comes across on the forum. I believe as more newer ones get banged on you will continue to see 4 pinions fail closer to the rate of 2 pinions (which is still low in the big picture). Only time will tell, but for the sake of guys with the newer ones I hope I am incorrect.

^^^I think tabraha right about this. The last 3 we've seen on here have all been of the 4 pinion variety. The 2-pinion/4pinion refers to the spider gears.

Here comes some off the cuff knowledge that I've gained from really learning how differentials work...... The pinion gear is tapered and grooved so the teeth on it are spiraled. That means that as it spins in the teeth of the ring gear, it's actually trying to "pull" away from it. That's natural, and can be set up tighter to allow more room to pull away and still be engaged. The carrier, or center section (what the ring gear bolts to) on our trucks is the actual weak link here. As the pinion gear is trying to pull away from the ring gear under load, the carrier flexes. We're talking thousands of an inch.

Over time, parts start to wear. The sludge that you clear off your differential drain plug is coming from the wear of everything. What started out as 5/1000s now may be 9/1000s. When we put that system under load from climbing, spinning, bouncing and suddenly that wheel gets traction and grabs, the shock load is going through the entire system. The carrier flexes or deflects just a hair and causes the pinion gear to pull away too far from the ring gear. The teeth bind and shear off. As more of our trucks see the milage and wear and tear of use, this scenario will be more prevalent.

The carrier (what the ring gear bolts to) of a TJM or ARB locker is more ridged and will not flex, or won't flex nearly as much, allowing the pinion gear to try and pull away from the ring gear, but still stay within tolerances. That, coupled with gears that are set up correctly means something else will become the weak link when the entire system comes under load. That's a good thing. Replacing a U joint or cv is easier/cheaper than replacing gears.

If I'm wrong here, someone will correct me. I'm looking forward to getting this thing disassembled to get a good look at the center section. I'd like to see if I can tell that it flexed. Do they crack/split? There would be no way to ever know that that's what caused the failure unless we saw that, correct?

I never paid too much attention to all the threads about this. I always felt it wouldn't happen to me. I don't know where I fall in the scope of mild to wild use for the 100 Series crowd. I go out often, that's all I can say. I've done runs with jonharis and bluecruiser who are fully locked and I was not. Whether I broke because of something I did wrong or it was just my time, I'll never know. I wasn't on a dirt road, I was on a pretty difficult section of a moderate trail. Others have broken on lesser obstacles on mild trails. If you're reading this and you haven't broken yours yet, it's just a matter of time as your vehicle ages and parts wear. Spressomon is 100% correct when he says this should be your first mod. Or if its not, then just keep a jar of money on your dresser and every time you go out, put a few dollars in there for when this happens.
 
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From what I've gathered of the years of reading these threads and 2 friends have have busted their own front diffs, the issue isn't the ring and pinion, it's the spider gears inside the diff that are connected through the axle to the CVs. They're smaller and under a shock load, they can slip and break. It's once those pieces fall out of the middle of the diff that they possibly get picked up by the spinning ring and then it becomes collateral damage.
 
From what I've gathered of the years of reading these threads and 2 friends have have busted their own front diffs, the issue isn't the ring and pinion, it's the spider gears inside the diff that are connected through the axle to the CVs. They're smaller and under a shock load, they can slip and break. It's once those pieces fall out of the middle of the diff that they possibly get picked up by the spinning ring and then it becomes collateral damage.

I was thinking the same. We all have a single drive pinion, the difference is in then internal spiders. I don't recall those breaking. Seems like it's always teeth off the ring.
 
From what I've gathered of the years of reading these threads and 2 friends have have busted their own front diffs, the issue isn't the ring and pinion, it's the spider gears inside the diff that are connected through the axle to the CVs. They're smaller and under a shock load, they can slip and break. It's once those pieces fall out of the middle of the diff that they possibly get picked up by the spinning ring and then it becomes collateral damage.

There are two distinct ways these break. Ring gear / Pinion failure and spider gears. The 100 has the same ring and pinion as the 80 and this is not nearly as prevalent on the 80. 80's break diffs when reversing and putting stress on the front diff.

I still believe all this is related to wheel spin/grabbing traction due to the IFS lifting tires way easier than the solid axle.
 
In my case, the spider gears are intact and spin fine with no issues.
 
In my case, the spider gears are intact and spin fine with no issues.

So unless there is a difference in carrier strength between the 2 and 4 pinion it would have made no difference in your case, which is Dan's point.
 
In my case, the spider gears are intact and spin fine with no issues.

Have you got the case opened and verified that? If you're referring to when you put a wheel in the air and rotated it, they wouldn't necessarily bind even if they are missing metal.
 
Have you got the case opened and verified that? If you're referring to when you put a wheel in the air and rotated it, they wouldn't necessarily bind even if they are missing metal.

I haven't, but I will tonight or tomorrow afternoon and I'll snap some pictures. No doubt I would feel it though. I held the tail flange in my hand to stop it from rotating and spun the wheels. How could I not feel the tick/clunk of missing teeth from the spider gears?
 
The metal cleaves off, it doesn't peel off like sheet metal and leave a deformity that can catch. Think of it like a bike chain. Clip a few teeth off the front sprocket, chain still moves, and you wouldn't feel it pedaling.
 
The metal cleaves off, it doesn't peel off like sheet metal and leave a deformity that can catch. Think of it like a bike chain. Clip a few teeth off the front sprocket, chain still moves, and you wouldn't feel it pedaling.

Good point, I'll report back.
 
IIRC the first we heard of this here was people breaking on flat ground due to shock load. The first thread I remember was a guy who transitioned from ice to a dry spot and broke. I want to say he was in a parking lot or on a snow covered paved road but I don't remember the details that well.

My own experience happened when I was angling up out of a creek and lifted a wheel on the bank. When the front came back down the differential broke. Since then I have hammered the front a lot harder and the ARB held up.
 
Well... here's pictures. 7 broken teeth on the ring gear. 3 different spots, so the first break caused some of the broken bits to bind up and take some collateral damage with it. I can't believe I was able to keep driving.

Pinion gear shows no signs of carnage and the spider gears are intact, no carnage.

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