blacksmithing work station (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gofast
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2007
- Threads
- 487
- Messages
- 4,532
- Location
- Fraser Valley, British Columbia
- Website
- www.ajae.ca
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #105
Actually no. Interesting thing about the copper is that it doesn't hold heat. The small gauge material is instantly touchable after quenching and the copper pin I used to go from cone to star was just seconds to cool. Steel takes way longer to get to safe temperature.... with gloves on your fingers, right?
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #106
Mentioned a few posts back that I was upgrading my propane forge. Well sometimes purchases fall way below expectations.... it arrived broken and was very poor quality. After some humming and hawing I decided to build my own. I salvaged the carcass and have started the fab. Over the next couple of weeks I will have the refractory liner in, will tune my burners, and try my first piece in it.
Scrapped the burners that came with the forge and went with some hot rods. I have three going in. You need one burner for every 350 cubic inches. This forge will finish out at 1095 once the insulation is in so I am over burnered. Should be interesting to see how it operates as the burner outputs 2600 degrees Fahrenheit. When I tune them I'll record it on video and post it up.
Burner assembly was completed today.
The center picture shows the top of the burners - they are venturi style. These are chokes that allow me to dial back the air to create an oxygen poor burn - that's the tuning process and altitude affects combustion - just like the carburetors in our 2F's. (more tech) The lower the oxygen mix yet good fuel burn - the more efficient the forge and I'll have less scale and pitting occurring in the the steel of the pieces I'm working .
Scrapped the burners that came with the forge and went with some hot rods. I have three going in. You need one burner for every 350 cubic inches. This forge will finish out at 1095 once the insulation is in so I am over burnered. Should be interesting to see how it operates as the burner outputs 2600 degrees Fahrenheit. When I tune them I'll record it on video and post it up.
Burner assembly was completed today.
The center picture shows the top of the burners - they are venturi style. These are chokes that allow me to dial back the air to create an oxygen poor burn - that's the tuning process and altitude affects combustion - just like the carburetors in our 2F's. (more tech) The lower the oxygen mix yet good fuel burn - the more efficient the forge and I'll have less scale and pitting occurring in the the steel of the pieces I'm working .
Last edited:
So the side bolts? For adjusting oxygen ratios?
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #108
The bolts are "set screws" that allow me to position the burner within the burner holding tube. I'm able to adjust burner depth and center the burner in the holding tube. The burner assembly looks like this:
The cone on the end is stainless steel and is flared slightly. Flaring creates turbulence as the propane and air mixture enters the forge helping the propane to burn better. Kinda like fuel or diesel injectors which create a spray pattern when the fuel enters cylinders.
This picture shows where air enters the burner. The burner on the right's choke plate is open and left is closed of course. When I tune the burner I'll be adjusting the choke plate to create the correct burn in the forge.
This view is of the "injector" within the burner - looking from inside the burner entry cone at the end opposite the choke plate. The orifice is the size of a 0.24 welding tip. Propane enters the burner through the orifice under pressure (hope to run around 7 psi for fuel saving). The pressure of the propane sucks in air through the choke plate and the mix travels down the burner tube igniting in the forge chamber.
I just finished fitting kaowool to the forge body. It is a ceramic blanket that protects the body of the forge from the heat and also holds heat within the forge. Some guys run their forge with only a ceramic blanket. This is dangerous in my opinion as you're breathing glass fibres every time you knock the blanket with your tools or your work piece. I'll be coating mine with a concrete refractory.
I applied a rigidizer to the blanket which is why it appears blue. The rigidizer semi-hardens the blanket so that its easier to apply the refractory.
Last edited:
Very good schooling in forges. I have the quintessential tiger torch, I think
at 80,000 BTU. So what is each nozzle in your forge then? Obviously I watch
Forged in Fire and I’m stunned at how fast they can enclose those forges
and get solid 3” balls ( for example ) to meltable temps.
at 80,000 BTU. So what is each nozzle in your forge then? Obviously I watch
Forged in Fire and I’m stunned at how fast they can enclose those forges
and get solid 3” balls ( for example ) to meltable temps.
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #110
Your tiger torch and some firebrick would make a forge!
BTU estimates vary for burners - not a lot of real testing ever happens or is stated - no CSA or UL standards are applied and information is sketchy. Estimates range from 45,000 btu at 5 psi to 95,000 btu at 20 psi.
Instead you see a lot of burners claiming temperature ranges. The ones I'm putting in cap out at 2600 Degrees F. Forge welding happens around 1600 to 1800.
The efficiency of the forge is the trick to getting steel to heat quickly. By using the ceramic blanket my forge will heat quickly - its a great insulator. If I was to use castable refractory alone the forge may not get to forge welding temperature as the the refractory acts like a heat sink. My design is to get to, and hold, welding heat quickly and continuously. Over the next couple of weeks I'll explain why I've chosen my materials. I'm building to concentrate heat in the forge chamber.
The three burner units you see on Forged in Fire are cheap to purchase. They are efficient forges because of their small sized chambers. They only have to make knives which are thin.
Wow, nice work John. It kinda looks like a mini version of the gasifiers we desgined when I was working at Nexterra.
Doing an internet image search for leg vice stands I ran across your image of your great design for your vice, how are you liking it after a few years of use now?
Happy I found this thread, you do some fantastic work and I really enjoyed reading about your projects.
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #113
Thanks J Mack - glad you're enjoying this - it's been great journey.
A lot of ideas get reworked when you use them - something you sound knowledgeable about. For example I've rebuilt my 80 series storage twice and I'm going for a third round after the forge is done. My first set of sliders were built 3 times too. The leg vice stand worked the first time though...heavy enough to stand on its own under hammer blows, base is the right size to allow me to tilt the vice and drag it to my work area, and with the rings and rebar allows me to store my tongs which take up a lot of space. I use it for a lot of things as it works with awkward pieces that don't work on my bench vice as the bench gets in the way. Should have bought one years ago.
I also use it to hold a magnetic vise. The magnetic vice uses rare earth magnets with a 800 pound pull which is great for axle shafts and other pieces I don't want jaw marks on. You just place the piece on the magnetic base, activate the magnet, and its held in place. The configuration of the leg vice allows me to have access around any piece I mount on it.
On another note I got my first coat of refractory on the forge last weekend and will do the second coat this weekend - I'll update this thread with the product info and pics after I get the coating done. Part of the curing process is firing the burners to heat it- I'll post video of that too.
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #114
Finally got the first coat of refractory 90% complete. Basically its like mixing cement. I used a Product called Kast O LIte 30
And I've pretty much gone through about 15 lbs for my forge. It mixes like normal concrete and I added enough water to get it to a consistency of sour cream to apply it to the ceramic blanket liner. It needs to go through a dry out process which pretty much means I need to have a programmable oven. Its supposed to be heated and held to a temperature then allowed to cool then heated again etc. I didn't think my lovely wife would have been impressed if I stuffed the forge into the oven so I elected to go the route others have gone.
I started up my burners for a 3 minute burn and then shut it off and let it cool to ambient. Then again for five minutes and then later at 10 and finally 15 minutes. My first burn was after a week of curing. You could see the darker moisture spots gradually disappearing
Interestingly the refractory when dried is light gray but after heating turned peach colour. Here's a few more shots of the burners - these are not tuned yet and I was running at 7psi.
I puts out a little dragon's breath
The dry out process (burn-in cycles) is meant to keep the refractory from cracking under thermal shock long term.
After drying and burn-in the refractory is still pretty soft. To protect this first coat (about 1/2 thick) I will be applying a thin "clay-like" refractory over top which is more resistant to wear. Dragging steel out of the forge and the flux from welding will eat the refractory so the clay will help preserve its integrity. Also, as the kast o lite is softish I could be breathing silica rich dust - and silicosis is a problem. Basically the fine silica slashes lung fibres which is another reason to apply the clay stuff over top. I wore a respirator for mixing the refractory too.
And I've pretty much gone through about 15 lbs for my forge. It mixes like normal concrete and I added enough water to get it to a consistency of sour cream to apply it to the ceramic blanket liner. It needs to go through a dry out process which pretty much means I need to have a programmable oven. Its supposed to be heated and held to a temperature then allowed to cool then heated again etc. I didn't think my lovely wife would have been impressed if I stuffed the forge into the oven so I elected to go the route others have gone.
I started up my burners for a 3 minute burn and then shut it off and let it cool to ambient. Then again for five minutes and then later at 10 and finally 15 minutes. My first burn was after a week of curing. You could see the darker moisture spots gradually disappearing
Interestingly the refractory when dried is light gray but after heating turned peach colour. Here's a few more shots of the burners - these are not tuned yet and I was running at 7psi.
I puts out a little dragon's breath
The dry out process (burn-in cycles) is meant to keep the refractory from cracking under thermal shock long term.
After drying and burn-in the refractory is still pretty soft. To protect this first coat (about 1/2 thick) I will be applying a thin "clay-like" refractory over top which is more resistant to wear. Dragging steel out of the forge and the flux from welding will eat the refractory so the clay will help preserve its integrity. Also, as the kast o lite is softish I could be breathing silica rich dust - and silicosis is a problem. Basically the fine silica slashes lung fibres which is another reason to apply the clay stuff over top. I wore a respirator for mixing the refractory too.
Last edited:
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #115
Today I built-out one end of the forge. The kast o lite has a small aggregate in it and it can be used to cast a foundary, fire box etc. It mixes and is worked like regular cement.
As I want to cover all of the ceramic blanket, I applied it to the end. I bent up some baling wire "rebar" to help tie the refractory together and then coated it with kast o lite. The wire was bent in such a way as it hooks into the blanket.
Tomorrow, I flip the forge and do the other end and later this week I'll do the burn-in cycles. When that's complete its on to the clay-like coating.
As I want to cover all of the ceramic blanket, I applied it to the end. I bent up some baling wire "rebar" to help tie the refractory together and then coated it with kast o lite. The wire was bent in such a way as it hooks into the blanket.
Tomorrow, I flip the forge and do the other end and later this week I'll do the burn-in cycles. When that's complete its on to the clay-like coating.
Last edited:
gofast
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #116
Last weekend I fooled around for about half morning thinning down and getting a railway spike ready for a 1080 blank. I intend to give my brother-in-law a knife to go with his fork. At some point I'll forge weld the 1080 into this channel. I'd like to try that in the new forge.
The slot was created with a hot cutter. The pic below is an example of the type of tool I used (image stolen off the web)
The slot was created with a hot cutter. The pic below is an example of the type of tool I used (image stolen off the web)
Last edited:
Impressive work John
stevebradford
In the shop
Good stuff, love all the info in this thread. Nice work! Reminds me of my cousin’s 40 seat covers.
Everyones favourite store appears to be getting into it now too Forging | Princess Auto