blacksmithing work station (1 Viewer)

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This does help. Thank you for your time. If one realizes the value of a 150 litre fuel tank should it
be parked out of sight. Or in a hotel parking lot. I don’t think a leaf spring is ideal just due to the weight
involved. I think the actual dimensions of the bottom of the tank are not too great, I have a couple of old
galvanized steel feed tubs to quench in. Might sound stupid but I presume old motor oil would just flash up and ignite almost right away.
Bead rolling three or four ridges would reduce twisting tendency, might not eliminate it but reduce it.
Thanks again. J
 
Feed tubs are a good idea!

I haven't tried motor oil so can't advise. During quenching oil can cook and stick to your metal- think of seasoning cast iron. I have no trouble removing the canola- not sure about motor oil though.

You could always practice on some scrap so you have the process down.

Also you'll need vise grips or tongs etc. to handle the metal. Welding gloves or other will not protect you long enough working at the temps you'll need to work at.
 
How about 4140 and 4340 some of the 4340 will already have been heat treated and stress relieved don't know if you can re heat treat it. Also what about HSS tooling like 1" Dia. Taps etc. is this stuff useful to you?
 
Oh and for quenching what about used diesel engine oil because of the carbon, that is what I used to use to make and harden scribes etc for work, but this was small stuff just used a loaf pan filled with it
 
WrenchMonkey said:
How about 4140 and 4340 some of the 4340 will already have been heat treated and stress relieved don't know if you can re heat treat it. Also what about HSS tooling like 1" Dia. Taps etc. is this stuff useful to you?
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4140 is naturally strong because of its alloy combination and I think can be made stronger through heat treating - I haven't tried it but I think its the right choice for armour - next time I build some i'll use it. I have used HSS to make my own punches etc and it can be heated - then worked because its softer after heating - and requenched.

I had an old time Croatian smith tell me that carbon based oil - not the canola I use - will be absorbed by the metal on quenching. I don't think this is true for the temps I work at - the reading I've done says that this can occur but over 1600 degrees Fahrenheit which is getting close to forge welding temperatures. There are actual quenching oils which have viscosities and moisture content properties that support predictable results and also provide rust inhibitors. Common use quenching oils for knife makers are canola and vegetable /peanut oils because it provides a cheap way to get the job done.

The advanced guys have temp probes to determine if the material is hot enough to quench. I don't have that equipment but do use a telescoping magnet. When the magnet doesn't stick to the steel I want to quench - its the right temperature for quenching.
 
So I did a practice run for the competition. I mentioned earlier that the theme was "space" and I was going to do a bowl of planets. My practice run was the bowl and I'm now going to make a flying saucer. I spent Tuesday and Wednesday evening forging a bowl from 1/4 inch plate.

I started with a 20 inch disk - in this picture I've already started dishing the bowl.

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I picked up a set of forms from a retiring blacksmith - I have a number of them in various sizes:


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Forging was accomplished by heating sections of the plate -its just too big to heat the whole thing and I had to work sections that got hot enough to forge. I had a friend do the striking with a 6lb sledge. Hand planishing with a rounding hammer followed to take out the biggest marks from the sledge. The plate gave off a tremendous amount of heat on the anvil and I used my longest handled hammer to keep further away from the heat. The large surface area of the bowl held so much temperature the wood of the handle singed from proximity to the bowl.

I was surprised by the effort to sink the steel and glad I practiced for the competition. I'm making the flying saucer out of two "bowls" that I'll rivet together. Engines will be 80 series wheel bearings (there, this thread is now tech). I'm smithing out of 1/16 for the saucer - I think I can finish in four hours if I use the thin plate. I'm also going with a 16 inch diameter disk.

Pictures of it at depth - you can see the beeswax drips from where it wrapped around as I coated the bottom first. Beeswax acts as a rust proofer. It will eventually break down if left out side but it lasts a long time

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Last picture shows the wax pooling which I removed with paper towel before it cooled.

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When the wax cools it has a matte finish - but it you buff it with a cloth it gets shinny

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I like the patina that developed naturally on the steel from heating - it has blues, reds and grays





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My Original theme was to fill it with planets. When Glenn, Gary, Norm, Greg, and I were down in Utah last we found moqui marbles

Mars on Earth: How Utah's Fantastical Moqui Marbles Formed

we were not at the site in the link but found them in a river channel. Hence my bowl of planets:

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And now I have a piece to go on the table that reminds me of the trip.

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Just setting up my vice and work station, what would you recommend as a starting point for the height of the vice jaws to floor, I am 5’10”
 
47coeman said:
Just setting up my vice and work station, what would you recommend as a starting point for the height of the vice jaws to floor, I am 5’10”
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That's a matter of preference. I too am 5'10" and I have short legs and long torso. My wife is one inch shorter than me but her leg length is 4 inches longer ;). The more I have to half-bend over what I'm working on the more sore my back becomes. A good working height for me with vise is about 40 inches to the top of the vise. This allows me to stand upright with no bending whatsoever. I made both stationary and layout benches in my shop 40 inches as well. I do have a rolling workstation that sits at 34 inches so if I have a large object, like a wheel rim or 40 series heater housing, working on them is comfortable.

When I set up my belt grinder stand, I set it up so that the material/tool rest (platten surface) is 40 as well.

If your setting up a striking surface like an anvil or thick steel plate (some vises have a built in anvil) you should set the height of the surface of your plate or anvil at your wrist bone level. To do this drop your arm (natural resting) with your hand beside your thigh and measure from the floor to the boney bump on your wrist. This becomes the height of your anvil/plate. That height is ergonomic , you won't hyper-extend your arm while swinging a hammer and cause a bunch of joint and tendon problems, yet you'll still have full power of your swing and best of all you can stand upright and save your back. If you set your surface at wrist bone height your hammer face naturally strikes flat as well which is the control needed for moving metal.
 
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TNX for the deep explanation it will be very helpful. Especially the body reference for for different peoples height. Now I can get busy. Skip
 
gofast said:
Thanks for the comments. One day Mat I might know enough to answer some questions - definitely want to try making my own Damascus blades.

The Okanagan is a terrible place to get good steel. When, I'm down for Crusier days I'm heading to Metal Mart for some steel that will allow me to make a few more tools. Looking for old leaf springs, coil springs, and axle shafts. Old files, hammers, demolition bits and other hardened steel can be remade and reheat treated ---anyone want to donate?

I'm doing an anvil stand next and its legs will be filled with Sand. It not only provides weight to keep things stable but also takes the ring out of the anvil and quiets everything down, Neighbours will be happier I'm sure.
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I heard that brake pedals are made with high quality spring steel. Neighbour made me a tool to torque down rear axle inner oil seal from one as my torque wrench only went up to 250 ft/lbs. Probably pretty cheap at the wrecker.
 
Hey John,

I'll be travelling from Abby to Kamloops through to Grand Forks on the 18th to 22nd. I'll be seeing Vince in GF as well and he may have some donations.

I could mud ship if anyone wants to donate and connect with me next week and I can drop off at your place on my way home.

I could also stop at Metal Mart for you; I've been there many times, if you need anything specific.

:beer:
 
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AJAEbj42 said:
Hey John,

I'll be travelling from Abby to Kamloops through to Grand Forks on the 18th to 22nd. I'll be seeing Vince in GF as well and he may have some donations.

I could mud ship if anyone wants to donate and connect with me next week and I can drop off at your place on my way home.

I could also stop at Metal Mart for you; I've been there many times, if you need anything specific.

:beer:
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That's an awesome offer Rob and very kind! I'm a little over stocked now; however, would like a bunch of railroad spikes in general.

I'm going back and forth to Van again and will be in the lower mainland when you're in my neck of the woods. Figures😑
 
Brother-in-law gave me a bunch of railway spikes. Everyone that gives me steel gets something back. On the short list is Norm, Greg, and Phil - over christmas I'll be forging copies of fiskar brush axes for you. Just setting up a two burner forge. I'm selling my single burner if anyone is interested.

Anyways brother-in-law gave me spikes. Built him a barbecue fork.

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COPPER IS THE NEW STEEL!

Yesterday I did some forge work with copper - first time I tried it and Wow was it fun! It gets molten if you don't watch and it disappears in the coals.

With lights off, the working temperature was dull red. The flames coming off the coals was green and I tried to capture it here but it doesn't really show in the picture. The green flame is the copper oxidizing with heat.

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I worked with 22 gauge. And after you heat the material and quench it (annealing). it becomes super malleable - almost like heavy tin foil - and you can shape it either with your fingers or with a very small and light hammer. It hardens as you work it and then you just do the process over and start again. The copper also gets a really interesting patina depending on how hot it gets. Ranges from blue to gold to red to pink.

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Used a torch and some solder for final assembly

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Christy was pretty excited to see it on the tree

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Merry Christmas All!
 
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