Bizarre Dwell and Point Gap -Question

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Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Threads
24
Messages
60
Location
Parker Colorado
before I ask my question, some specifics..

I have been tinkering and fixing on this 76 40 since I obtained it... 18 months or so ago.

-The engine was "rebulilt" by a shop for the PO roughly 4-5 years ago, then the cruiser sat under a tarp for 5 years. -till I bought It with only a couple thousand mile on the rebuild. He had no paperwork on the rebuild nor could he tell me exactly what was done - basically it was simply on his "word"... but my inspections looked like it was true

-140-145 compression all cylinders
- clutch appears fresh (from inspection plate) and feels fresh on the pedal
-the whole engine is coated with engine paint (and you can tell it was done on an engine stand without the Transmission)
-the inside of the valve cover and valve train was super clean - no globs of old oil wax or anything in there at all ( shiny new looking) ...

To the engine I have subsequently
- adjusted the valves
-rebuilt the carb ( period appropriate toyota but a non emissions carb)
-new plugs, wires, points and dist cap, rotor
-timing is set with the BB to the bottom of the window (10-12ish BTDC) -altitude here.
-16 Inches of vacuum, smooth & steady ( Altitude is 6500 feet )
-lean drop idle


This rig is running like a swiss watch ... starts on first revolution, runs strong, no pinging, Idle set to 575, it is daily driven, and weekend abused ( in a cruiser appropriate way)


Here is my issue..... to get the rig to run well (and it really does) my point gap is set to .013 and the resultant dwell is only 25 degrees. ( way outta spec) If I try to get the dwell higher to the spec 45 Degrees, the points are going to be touching and will burn up. and if I set my points to .018 gap the dwell goes way down to like 10 degrees... it runs much worse either way.... So basically I have tuned it for best operation and tossed the specs out the window.

The distributor shaft has no noticeable play ( when I grab it and try to wiggle it), it does not appear worn and is not gummed up.

-Weak coil?
-bad dwell meter? ( or hooked up wrong)
-bad or wrong set of (new) points?
-Wrong distributorr?
-bad distributor?

it has been like this for a few thousand miles now with no issues- the points still look brand new on the contact faces.

I can leave it like this forever if needed - but it drives me nuts that its so far from the spec. I hate to buy a new distributor if it really will make no difference.
 
Does it make a difference which dizzy your running? Do you have the original 76 vacuum retarn, or the nonUSA vacuum advance?
 
It is a vacuum advance distributor.... both centripital force AND OR vacuum will advance the timing... ie: the BB drops out of sight to the bottom of the sight window.

-It is a toyota distributor
-one with the small body and cap
- I doubt it is original - but it took the period appropriate cap,rotor, points
- I cant read the markings on it - label is decayed away
 
It is a vacuum advance distributor.... both centripital force AND OR vacuum will advance the timing... ie: the BB drops out of sight to the bottom of the sight window.

-It is a toyota distributor
-one with the small body and cap
- I doubt it is original - but it took the period appropriate cap,rotor, points
- I cant read the markings on it - label is decayed away
Does the dizzy have the octane adjustment knob sticking out of the side? It should be opposite teh vacuum diaphragm John.
 
I could never get the dwell set to the FSM specs either. I just set it at .017 and it ran great for 12 years.
 
nope... - it does not have the octane knob under a clear plastic cover ( and no clear plastic cover either -nor any provision for one)
 
before I ask my question, some specifics..

I have been tinkering and fixing on this 76 40 since I obtained it... 18 months or so ago.

-The engine was "rebulilt" by a shop for the PO roughly 4-5 years ago, then the cruiser sat under a tarp for 5 years. -till I bought It with only a couple thousand mile on the rebuild. He had no paperwork on the rebuild nor could he tell me exactly what was done - basically it was simply on his "word"... but my inspections looked like it was true

-140-145 compression all cylinders
- clutch appears fresh (from inspection plate) and feels fresh on the pedal
-the whole engine is coated with engine paint (and you can tell it was done on an engine stand without the Transmission)
-the inside of the valve cover and valve train was super clean - no globs of old oil wax or anything in there at all ( shiny new looking) ...

To the engine I have subsequently
- adjusted the valves
-rebuilt the carb ( period appropriate toyota but a non emissions carb)
-new plugs, wires, points and dist cap, rotor
-timing is set with the BB to the bottom of the window (10-12ish BTDC) -altitude here.
-16 Inches of vacuum, smooth & steady ( Altitude is 6500 feet )
-lean drop idle


This rig is running like a swiss watch ... starts on first revolution, runs strong, no pinging, Idle set to 575, it is daily driven, and weekend abused ( in a cruiser appropriate way)


Here is my issue..... to get the rig to run well (and it really does) my point gap is set to .013 and the resultant dwell is only 25 degrees. ( way outta spec) If I try to get the dwell higher to the spec 45 Degrees, the points are going to be touching and will burn up. and if I set my points to .018 gap the dwell goes way down to like 10 degrees... it runs much worse either way.... So basically I have tuned it for best operation and tossed the specs out the window.

The distributor shaft has no noticeable play ( when I grab it and try to wiggle it), it does not appear worn and is not gummed up.

-Weak coil?
-bad dwell meter? ( or hooked up wrong)
-bad or wrong set of (new) points?
-Wrong distributorr?
-bad distributor?

it has been like this for a few thousand miles now with no issues- the points still look brand new on the contact faces.

I can leave it like this forever if needed - but it drives me nuts that its so far from the spec. I hate to buy a new distributor if it really will make no difference.

Weak coil: Shouldn't affect dwell, dwell meters usually measure how many degrees the points are closed for... Not coil function.
Bad Meter: Can you borrow another? Do you have the instructions? Have you tried hooking it up differently?
Bad/wrong points: not likely since it is running well.
Wrong distributor/wrong distributor: doesn't sound like it's bad... And you say it's running like a top.

I'm not certain, but isn't the idle spec 650 rpm? Try readjusting your idle, setting gap with feeler gauges, readjusting timing, and then checking dwell. Adjusting the dwell will alter the timing.

I've said goodbye to points and am running an electronic points replacement from Crane Cams on my 350. I love it... It always is bang on (and even has a rev limiter) I believe Pertronix makes a similar product for Toyota distributors.
 
I could never get my dwell to work right. Ran great when gapped to spec, ran awful, if at all with the dwell in spec. Might be a typo or a metric dwell, I don't know. Forget the dwell and tune it where it runs best.
 
Double check your dwell meter instructions, I'm guessing you hooked it up wrong, because I did the same thing. When I was trying to measure mine, I had mine hooked up wrong and it was measuring the opposite of dwell or something like that.

Like everyone else said, if it runs great then who cares what the dwell is. I consider more of a starting point than a spec.
 
This issue has come up many times before and I don't believe that anyone has been able to set the dwell within the published specs and get it to run right. It remains a minor cruiser mystery.
 

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