When swapping the birfields around do you also need to swap the hubs along with the birfields? or do the hubs stay on their corresponding sides?
Thanks
Thanks
Birfield swap question. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter atijerino
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atijerino said:
What do you mean by "swapping" birfields? Do you mean putting the driver's side on the passenger and vice versa? You can't do that....look under your truck and you'll see the front differential is offset...the axle one one side is longer than the other. Why would you want to swap these anyway?
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- #3
The birfields are the same identical part for the DS and for the PS, the inner axle past the birfields are different becuase of the offset you mentioned in your message. The reason that I want to swap them is because according to many threads on this forum it would be like installing new birfields on both sides of the truck due to the rotational wear from spinning on the same direction (forward 99.xx% of the time) most of the truck's life.
Thanks,
Thanks,
atijerino said:
Agreed, the joint itself is the same, the axle shafts are different lengths. I cannot comment on the notion that swapping the joints would gain anything. However, the spindles are otherwise identical on both sides.
semlin
curmudgeon
I have not done this but all you need to do is separate the birfs from the inner axles and, swap them to the other axles. The pipe trick works to separate. You should buy new c-clips.
Although AFAIK the hubs are symmetrical and could be swapped if needed I see no reason to swap them. Hubs normally do not wear, the bearings and races do but they are replaceable and generally do not wear directionally like the birf does.
If you are going to disassemble the birf from the axle shaft as part of a repack (some people do not) then it is no more added work to swap them, you just reassemble with the birfs on opposite sides,
you do want to make sure you transfer the complete Birf (tulip/bell, cage, star, and balls) from side to side as an assembly, these are wear items and should stay as matched sets,
Defiantly get new C-clips, also having a few extra on hand would not hurt,
Beast II said:
If you are going to disassemble the birf from the axle shaft as part of a repack (some people do not) then it is no more added work to swap them, you just reassemble with the birfs on opposite sides,
you do want to make sure you transfer the complete Birf (tulip/bell, cage, star, and balls) from side to side as an assembly, these are wear items and should stay as matched sets,
Defiantly get new C-clips, also having a few extra on hand would not hurt,
I would definetly swap the birfields from side-to-side. I did my knuckle job on my LX at 65K miles and it showed noticable wear then, I swapped them side-to-side and drove it for another 60K+ miles without any problems or noise, I know others that have gotten clicking around 100K miles. When you get in there you will definetly notice some wear on the driving part, so giving the balls a new surface to push against can't be a bad thing I don't think.
Interesting side note, when I did the frontend on my 40 the wear was on the coasting side, no wear at all on the driving side. Since that vehicle was part-time 4wheeldrive, but it had driveplates from the factory (no unlocking hubs) the front axles were being turned from the tire, basically drug along, so the wear was on the coasting side, kinda different, totally opposite of what you'll see in an 80.
Good Luck...
If you're curious about the wear I saw, you can see the pics here:
http://www.colorado4x4.net/tech/knuckle_rebuild/knuckle_rebuild.html
Interesting side note, when I did the frontend on my 40 the wear was on the coasting side, no wear at all on the driving side. Since that vehicle was part-time 4wheeldrive, but it had driveplates from the factory (no unlocking hubs) the front axles were being turned from the tire, basically drug along, so the wear was on the coasting side, kinda different, totally opposite of what you'll see in an 80.
Good Luck...
If you're curious about the wear I saw, you can see the pics here:
http://www.colorado4x4.net/tech/knuckle_rebuild/knuckle_rebuild.html
Mabrodis
Those are great pictures of the "wear grooves" across the channels in the birfield bell. Only ones I've seen that show that. Yours seem to be more evenly distributed from front to back (driving v. braking) than I remember mine looking(at 108K).
I agree you should swap the birfields onto the opposite axle. They seem to be symmetrical, and it shifts the heavier wear surface to the rear.
Those are great pictures of the "wear grooves" across the channels in the birfield bell. Only ones I've seen that show that. Yours seem to be more evenly distributed from front to back (driving v. braking) than I remember mine looking(at 108K).
I agree you should swap the birfields onto the opposite axle. They seem to be symmetrical, and it shifts the heavier wear surface to the rear.
Results from my swapping
I bought my '95 with 75K on it, and the birfields were clicking. I immediately checked the knuckles (which were full) and at 92K, repacked everything.
The birfields have clicked (on full lock turns accelerating from a stop in sand) ever since. Fast-forward to this past weekend. At 148K, I serviced the front end again and swapped the birfields and repacked/replaced everything. Everything inside looked great - no visible wear on any birfield parts, but there was some rotational play in the birfields that wasn't there at 92K. I swapped them, with new clips, and put it all back together. They still click, but it sounds a little different.
To remove the birfs, I just tapped the inner race with a brass hammer to separate the joints (with the axle shaft in a vise, the way Toyota recommends) and it came apart easily. Doesn't dropping the shaft down a steel pipe risk scarring the machined seal surface on the axle shaft as it slides down the pipe?
Anyway, my birfield left-right swap didn't get me much. YMMV.
Steve
I bought my '95 with 75K on it, and the birfields were clicking. I immediately checked the knuckles (which were full) and at 92K, repacked everything.
The birfields have clicked (on full lock turns accelerating from a stop in sand) ever since. Fast-forward to this past weekend. At 148K, I serviced the front end again and swapped the birfields and repacked/replaced everything. Everything inside looked great - no visible wear on any birfield parts, but there was some rotational play in the birfields that wasn't there at 92K. I swapped them, with new clips, and put it all back together. They still click, but it sounds a little different.
To remove the birfs, I just tapped the inner race with a brass hammer to separate the joints (with the axle shaft in a vise, the way Toyota recommends) and it came apart easily. Doesn't dropping the shaft down a steel pipe risk scarring the machined seal surface on the axle shaft as it slides down the pipe?
Anyway, my birfield left-right swap didn't get me much. YMMV.
Steve
SteveH said:
FWIW, I think the way they do it is put the axle shaft down the pipe with the birf bell resting on the pipe. Then drop the pipe and birf together onto a hard surface and the axle shaft comes loose. If you use a little judgement and common sense, I doubt you'd bugger it up much, if at all.
SteveH said:
Swapping sides does not seem to guarantee that your clicking will go away. From my limited experience, if the components inside of the bell of the birfield are worn down enough, any amount of swapping won't work because of the wear inside.
At this point, it seems reasonable that you can either 'live with' the clicking or get replacements.
Later
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
I thought your best bet are grease pack and pray .. ! 
