Birf service - both wheels or....

[zklebe]

.... one at a time. Any disadvantages to putting the LC up on jack stands and removing both sides at the same time when doing the front axle service. I'm also considering replacing the trunion bearings in the steering Knuckle but don't want to disconnect the the tie rods I know I won't be able to set the preload but how hard is it to get the bearing races out while the steering knuckle remains attached ?

Sorry if these questions sound dumb, I'm a newbie!


Thanks,

Zach ??? ???

 

[PHAEDRUS]

Zach,
first go to the tech section if you havent already and read jim phillips write up it is a good place to start.
then have a beer and decide wich weekend you want to dedicate to this job. plan on 20+ hrs if you have all of the parts on hand and ready to go. at 109k I would probably do the wheel and trunion bearings when I was in there. also the inner oil seal and the wipers on the back side of the knuckle. this is not an incredcibly techinical job just labor intensive and you need a lot of patience. there is a gentleman by the name of Dan on the board who can get you parts at a very good rate.
as far as the rie rods you dont have to dissconnect them from their plates wic attach to the knuckle. just drop the plates. any further questions search for birfield with the author of Simon and see what can go wrong while you are in there.
Dave

 

[Pitbull]

Welcome to the site. WOW, 106K miles and no service of the frontend??? I can't believe its not leaking differential fluid out of the steering knuckles at the rate of a quart a day and that your birfields are still functioning. Don't forget to change the muffler, it has over 100K miles on it and if it fails while you are driving around town you could get a ticket. Also you should exchange the air in all four tires, I bet you haven't done that in a long time. 8)

 

[PHAEDRUS]

sorry just re read my post,
look for the name semlin, also as to the how to I would do both at the same time as you will be cleaning the birfeilds out and regreasing them this should be at the end of day one so they can get good and clean.
Dave

 

[cruiserdan]

It is not possible to properly set trunion bearing pre-load with the tie rods attached. The over-all job is easier if the tie rods are disconnected. It is easier to clean up the components and re-assembly is also easier. With a proper puller, tie rods can be popped in about a minute or so per end.

Pitbull is conducting a long term test of his front axle to see how long it will go, without being serviced, before it breaks. You should be aware of that information to put his observations into the proper context.

 

[stlcruiser]

Doing both sides at the same time should make the overall time spent doing the front axel service shorter.

However, I ended up doing a third side because after reassembling and completely installing the short axel first, I realized it was in the wrong side.

Good luck,

Steve '94

 

[Beowulf]

Zach,

Doing both sides at the same time gives you the option of swapping the birfields from one side to the other. I don't think that is necessary at your mileage but Robbie reported that he usually does it when he does a front end service. Swapping sides in a FT 4wd vehicle should increase the life of the CV's. I plan to swap mine at the next repack.

Doing one side then the other would probably be a tinsy bit faster if this is your first time.

>> Sorry if these questions sound dumb, I'm a newbie! <<

Good questions for a newbie or a Lifer .

-B-

 

[zklebe]

Thanks for the responses, I have already read all the Faq's available and my FSM was delivered on monday. The only tuff question I have to decide on is which bearings should be replaced as "preventative maintenence". I've read several comments that as long as the wheel bearings look good they should be reused - but several folks seem to encourage using new truion bearings no matter what. I guess my parts budget may dictate the final decision.

 

[Beowulf]

>> I guess my parts budget may dictate the final decision. <<

Yes, it gets down to a budget decision. Always replace the inner axle seal and the wipers. Replacing the trunion bearings makes sense because getting to them takes a lot of time and they are relatively cheap. They also get a lot of abuse and support most of the weight of the vehicle. The trunion bearings tend to wear in one position because they don't turn very much.

The wheel bearings are much easier to get to if you have to go back in and they list for approx $200 (qty 4) That's money that can go in the cruiser fund for a bumper, winch, rack, tyres, ..... *if* they are OK.

My 2c

-B-

 

[cruiserdan]

Zach,

If you plan to re-use the wheel bearings I suggest that you do not have Beo assist you. :whoops:

When he prys the oil seal out he sends the bearing flying accross the shop floor and into the sump

D-

 

[Beowulf]

... and then you have to go back to the Toy store with your hat in your hand and beg C-Dan to Pleeeeeease sell you the last 80 series wheel bearing in the state. Don't forget basic economic supply and demand 'cause that last wheel bearing will cost you dearly.

The moral of the story is *not* to worry about having a spare bearing on hand... the moral is to be more careful than I was when you pry out the inner dust seal.

-B-

 

[Pitbull]

[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=11725;start=msg106856#msg106856 date=1077127244]

Pitbull is conducting a long term test of his front axle to see how long it will go, without being serviced, before it breaks. You should be aware of that information to put his observations into the proper context.
[/quote]

Cruiserdan is right. Would you like to be part of my study group? Dan I hope that you will give me a super low price on all the parts I will need when mine finally breaks since I am doing this study for the good of all mankind and LC owners everywhere

 

[cruiserdan]

So,

I guess you want a research grant?

 

[97cruiser]

Zklebe, I recently did my front axle. I would recommend replacing trunion bearings only 'cuz you are gonna be right there. Mine had 95,000 on them and looked pretty darn good still but hey, now they are brand new and were very inexpensive. Obviously you want to replace the races also. The only thing I messed up on was, I didn't read the manual carefully enough and torqued one of the bolts that hold the wipers in ft./lbs. , should be in in./lbs. . The wheel bearing or hub nut is also in in./lbs. .

Vince

 

[semlin]

Zach

I have done birf repacks on three trucks now. If I can do them anyone can spo go for it. Pitbull is only right until he is wrong, then he will also be sorry

Don't get hung up on the tie rods. It is not hard to do it while leaving them on although you can't set the pre-load.

The last time it was 8 hours for two people. All 3 trucks had some pitted rollers on some of the trunnion bearings including one truck with only 70k. Remember that if you take it all apart and the bearings are shot, you have nowhere to turn if you don't have them handy and plan to drive the truck again that day.

You do not have to buy the bearings from toyota and I don't recommend that you do because you can save a lot buying the same parts from a bearing supplier (sorry Dan but it's true ). Just look in your yellow pages under bearings and see what you find, or, second choice, try an auto parts dealer. The $200 wheel bearings b-wulf lists from Toyota cost me a total of $83 CDN froma bearing supplier including our 14.5% tax.

If you run a search you will find a part list for the rebuild that gives you the Koyo/Timken wheel bearing part #'s. I also have a post from a few weeks ago where I tracked down the koyo codes for the trunnion/kingpin/knuckle bearings although I could not source them in Canada in time for the job.

 

[cruiserdan]

No need to apologize Simon. The OEM wheel bearings are not cheap. The only defense for those is the nice box they come in and if second-line or economy line bearings exist, these do not fall into that category. On the other hand I believe the OEM Trunion bearings are very reasonably priced, especially considering the fact that they are not to be found on every street corner. A smart shopper can pick them up for about 17 bucks a rattle.


D-

 

[Rookie2]

[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=11725;start=msg107090#msg107090 date=1077157840]
A smart shopper can pick them up for about 17 bucks a rattle.

D-
[/quote]

... "A smart shopper" .. I love that. I can just see the newbies clicking through the on-line discount auto stores in the quest to be a "smart shopper". Actually, maybe it was just me.. until I figured out the code :.


R-dueax

 

[Klunky Chris]

OK... PRELOAD:

does one really need to check the knuckle preload? I didn't bother as the OEM kit I had didn't have any shims to adjust it with. I also didn't have the *proper* tie rod end puller. Only a pickle fork. So I did the repack w/o pulling them.
I just put it all back together with the shims in the same place.

Yes I replaced the knuckle/trunion bearings and races.

I've put about 2k miles on it afterward and no problems that I can tell....

 

[Riley]

I'm no expert by any means but as long as you put the same shims back in the same spot then I bet it will be perfect. I remember reading somewhere on here that even when checking preload, the correct load was with the same shim setup (on a very high percentage of the time).

I bet it's really close. I did the same thing and didn't pull the tie rod ends (didn't have the correct tool either).

R

 

[Beowulf]

Chris,
I've yet to hear of anyone that has checked the knuckle preload on their 80's first DIY birf repack and NOT found it to be in spec (i.e. nobody has reported they had to use different shims.) This is anedoctal information but in 3 years of monitoring 80sCool and IH8MUD, I cannot recall anyone saying they had to use different shims.

This certainly isn't "best practice" and a professional mechanic wouldn't do it that way. I plan to check it at the next repack (approx 160k miles) but I just reused the shim and bolted it back up on the first repack.

-B-