AltFuel BioDiesel killed My Fuel System (1 Viewer)

[Nev62]

Hi all. Well I learnt an expensive lesson why I didn't use bio diesel in the past. Just to back-track a tad in time...

Engine is a GM 6.5lt V8 diesel (in my FJ62) only rebuilt some 5 years ago.

No power (40kmh going up steep hills)
Surging (most noticable when tank was almost emtpy)
Slight miss in the engine (very hard to hear)
Transmission seemed to be shot by either not kicking down soon enough or kicking down too soon.
A little rough when just idling.
Fast temp rise when under load.
Tacking noise (like really loud tappets or lifters) under normal driving but not noticable unlight load or heavy load.

Finally had enough and took it to a local diesel shop.

Compression test was ok so problem most likley external to the engine.

Fuel was tested and found to be contaminated (organic not dirt or mechanical),

Fuel tank filter clogged with crap (both organic and flakes from inside the tank. Tank had to be dropped cleaned out, resealed and refitted.

Out of 8 injectors, 2 were ok, 5 were working most of the time and 1 working some of the time. Nozzles worn and some residual found.

IP also had issues related to gunking up resulting in extra wear and needed a rebuild.

The shop said the result was from bio diesel and they have seen it a number of times. Mostly from the cheap fuel places (and now I know why they are so much cheaper)

This little exercise in saving up to 10 cents a liter over a few months cost me over $4000 in repairs...... Don't say I didnt warn you!!!

 

[flybynight]

I have heard the same before, in fact the Berkley Fire dept had major issues with half of its fleet. The quality control on bio-fuels are difficult to enforce so reputation becomes the only way to be confident. There are a lot of people in my area who are co-op purchacing fuel and storing at one person's property.

 

[Sniperx]

Do it yourself, that way you control every step of the process. Just to really be straight and fair here though. It wasn't the fuel's fault, but rather the hippy brewing caused the problem.

 

[calphi27]

those damn hippies

 

[Sarmajor]

Bio

Apart from the problems of dodgy Bio I recall readng that Bio will clean all the crap out of your fuel system so you could expect to have to replace the fuel filter a few times while switching to Bio fuel.

 

[RHINO]

sorry to hear about this but i second on not the fuels fault,,, where did you buy it? is it inspected or quality controlled in any way? i say this because in the USA we have a couple different ones in place,, ASTM has always been around and now there is an equivalent specifically for biofuel. we have several large company fleets in my area that made the switch to bio many years ago and the trend is spreading. i am lucky to have an awsome local supplier that not only meets national standards but are industry leaders in many other ways also. i know it may not pertain much to you guys in OZ but it might be good reading anyway. these guys have lots of info on bio in general as well as quality control and usage. http://www.biodiesel.org/

 

[bigbertha]

biodiesel

biodiesel takes as much petroleum to create as it saves. Not worth it anyways. Either way, I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

 

[Diescipel]

I agree, this can be explained by the quality of the fuel and the known effects of bioD on fuel systems. I have to say I've been running it for years now in two different diesels with perfect results.

And of course petrol diesel is perfect.

Have you considered the real problem may be that you have a GM diesel in your TLC?

B

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

biodiesel takes as much petroleum to create as it saves. Not worth it anyways. Either way, I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

I consult on biodiesel implementation and that is 100% incorrect. It may be true with ethanol but different fuel.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I am not sure you can blame it on biodiesel either. First you are complaining about transmission issues? It is true that biodiesel will clean out the residue from your tank and put it into your filter. If you are not diligent and/or use poor quality filters it can get past and affect your mechanical pumps. I would get your injectors rebuilt and if you decide not to run bio than so be it. I have thousands of mile with bio with little/no issues other than standard issues (changing filters).

I am not saying biodiesel is turn key but you should be aware and I do agree that there are some quality issues that need to be addressed. But for the record, issues from it are typically extremely rare..

 

[FL cruiser]

You never really know how good a Stanadyne pump is to begin with. When you buy a rebuilt pump, they are just a bunch of assembled used parts cleaned and then it's calibrated. They aren't truly rebuildable. The main wear items like the head and rotor aren't rebuildable. They don't replace them because new parts exceeed the price of what they can sell a "rebuilt" pump for. originals parts stay or used ones get thrown in. So when you say you started out with a a new rebuilt pump a few years ago, the pump may have had 300,000KM of wear already and could have just worn out from normal use. There is usually brown discoloration in injection pumps that have run veggie and bio. We never really know the true cause of failure, but diesel shops like to blame it on biodiesel.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

biodiesel takes as much petroleum to create as it saves. Not worth it anyways. Either way, I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

Could you elaborate on that?
I suspect it is 100% nonsense.
thanks,
J

 

[Tofudebeest]

Also the resource cost to produce biodiesel (how much fossil fuels are required to produce X gallons of B100) varies wildly, depending on what the primary oil is. If it is WVO, you can't factor in cost to produce that oil, because it is a waste product that at best, will be recycled into livestock feed, dog/cat food, weapons, etc.

If the biodiesel was made with ethanol, that is one set of calculations vs. if it was made with methanol. How the ethanol or methanol were made can vary more widely than you might expect.

In the end, the internal combustion engine is not efficient at all, no matter what fuel you use.

 

[fe sus]

Bio vs Petro

Yup, it's nonsense. Someone does not know the differrence between biodiesel and ethanol BIOFUELs. EROI for biodiesel is about 3 for one and for ethanol about 1 for 1 in N.America.

So I'm thinking of going with a steam engine for my next conversion... maybe coal fired? Or what's the smallest reactor you can get these days? Maybe I could fit one of those little attack sub reactors in my 80... then when I wasn't wheeling it I could plug it back into the grid and make bank!

 

[Eric Winkworth]

What you guys need to do is start researching Joe Cell

 

[roscoFJ73]

You never really know how good a Stanadyne pump is to begin with. When you buy a rebuilt pump, they are just a bunch of assembled used parts cleaned and then it's calibrated. They aren't truly rebuildable. The main wear items like the head and rotor aren't rebuildable. They don't replace them because new parts exceeed the price of what they can sell a "rebuilt" pump for. originals parts stay or used ones get thrown in. So when you say you started out with a a new rebuilt pump a few years ago, the pump may have had 300,000KM of wear already and could have just worn out from normal use. There is usually brown discoloration in injection pumps that have run veggie and bio. We never really know the true cause of failure, but diesel shops like to blame it on biodiesel.

In general I would agree as my experience with Denso rotary pumps is the same but this guy had his fuel tested and it was found to be contaminated.

The place where I buy Bio occasionally have extra fine filters so the pump is almost half the speed as normal or even slower when the filters are getting old.

 

[bagh33ra]

Could you elaborate on that?
I suspect it is 100% nonsense.
thanks,
J

Complete nonsense. As pointed out BioDiesel has a 3:1 EROEI, where as ethanol and E85 are much lower:

EROEI (Energy Return on Energy Invested) for Various Fuels

Biodiesel- 3:1
Coal- 1:1 to 10:1
Ethanol- 1.2:1
Natural Gas- 1:1 to 10:1
Hydropower- 10:1
Hydrogen- 0.5:1
Nuclear- 4:1
Oil- 1:1 to 100:1
Oil Sands- 2:1
Solar PV (2) - 1:1 to 10:1
Wind (2) - 3:1 to 20:1

Source:
http://www.energybulletin.net/14745.html

Furthermore, Ethanol/E85 based fuels, require the use of crop-land resources such as corn/etc. Biodiesel on the other hand can and should be extracted algal oils. Not only can algae be harvest from areas unsuitable for growing food-crops, it also has the highest oil yield per acre - by a long shot - of any viable biofuel feedstock crop.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24190.pdf

http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

No, no one is doing this on a commercial scale, yet, but people are working on it.

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=49412

http://aurorabiofuels.com/

Sorry, I get irritated at rumor mongering.

 

[Sniperx]

OKK...now to ask the question....

Is the 1HZ safe to run Bio and properly filtered/settled WVO? I already have heat exchangers, heated fuel filters, extended glowplug, longer glow relays, and possibly modded nozzles.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Complete nonsense. As pointed out BioDiesel has a 3:1 EROEI, where as ethanol and E85 are much lower:



Source:
http://www.energybulletin.net/14745.html

Furthermore, Ethanol/E85 based fuels, require the use of crop-land resources such as corn/etc. Biodiesel on the other hand can and should be extracted algal oils. Not only can algae be harvest from areas unsuitable for growing food-crops, it also has the highest oil yield per acre - by a long shot - of any viable biofuel feedstock crop.

I like the idea of a local celebrity scientist who runs a radio program in oz suggested.
Rather than use GM crops for food ,use GM technology for growing high energy yielding plant life for bio fuels

 

[FL cruiser]

Is the 1HZ safe to run Bio and properly filtered/settled WVO? I already have heat exchangers, heated fuel filters, extended glowplug, longer glow relays, and possibly modded nozzles.

The 1HZ's I've seen have had Denso rotary pumps. With the rotary pumps there isn't much room for error. Just need to be careful and be prepared for an eventual pump failure. Pump may last 20,00KM or may go 200,000 KM.
The question is how cheap and plentiful are injection pumps for the 1HZ's where you live? Always a good idea to pick up a spare inj pump whenever you run across a good deal.

You can research here http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve?a=cfrm&s=447609751
See others experiences with th Denso pumps.

When running a rotary pump, don't take any chances and always dewater your WVO even if you think there isn't moisture in it.