Battle of the LT A/T

[bloc]

What about number of plies?

The concept of "number of plies" doesn't really apply (see what I did there?) to radial tires. That was in the old bias-ply days.

Yes an e-load tire will have more structure to allow the greater inflation pressures, but it is an incremental difference and the jury is out on whether this will help avoid tire failure on trail, which seems to be the primary reason people that don't need the load rating run an e-load tire.

Also, it is possible they change other aspects of the tire construction to bring the friction down, and thereby increase the load rating.

For instance.. Per the spec sheet (if we can believe it) in the 285/70R17 that I run the E-load AT3 is actually lighter than the C-load, despite being slightly taller. They surely didn't take material out of the cords, otherwise it couldn't handle 80psi vs 50.. so where did it come from? Rubber? Maybe on the sidewall? Would you rather have slightly stronger cords or more rubber to avoid flats? Or could it be more advanced/lighter materials internally?

They may be tougher, but may not. Either way the idea that an E-load gives you four more plies of cotton than a C-load is no longer accurate.

You are better off just choosing a tire that isn't notorious for sidewall problems.. then choose the load range that is appropriate, vs spend extra on a harder to find tire that is more expensive and offers no clear benefit.

Now if the size you want is only available in e-load, then go for it..

 

[NoClue]

I've been running mickey thompson baja boss A/T's. I'd take a hard look at them for a more aggressive all terrain. Still 3 peak M+S rated. They've been excellent in all conditions

 

[Madtiger]

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=275

Toyo Open Country A/T III (On-/Off-Road All-Terrain, LT265/70R17 E 121/118S)

• What We Liked: The steering feels natural.
• What We'd Improve: It's loud on the road and needs a substantial increase in wet traction.
• Conclusion: We're looking forward to testing it in the snow.

I guess that Joe Bacal who advertises for Toyo never actually drove the tires in rain. Poor dude probably has hearing aids. Probably took the check and ran with it.

According to LinkedIn, Toyo AT3 took two years to develop with him. Two years!! How long did BFG spend to develope KO2? 10+ yrs? Yeah two years sounds about right for the (lack of) performance result.

 

[supercarrera]

I have the Falkens and they feel kind of heavy. I have a feeling the Toyo AT3 would have felt a little lighter. They are lighter in weight I believe. So I think if you want a heavier tire go with the Falkens and if you want a lighter feeling tire, go with the Toyos.

 

[Madtiger]

I have the Falkens and they feel kind of heavy. I have a feeling the Toyo AT3 would have felt a little lighter. They are lighter in weight I believe. So I think if you want a heavier tire go with the Falkens and if you want a lighter feeling tire, go with the Toyos.

Falkens uses cheap a$$ regular steel plies instead of high tensile steel plies that everyone else uses. Thus their tires are heavy as hell without any additional protection. In fact their sidewall is pretty weak like Duratracs.

 

[Madtiger]

Personally if I need AT, then two choices: KO2 or Yoko AT G015. That’s it. Guess what…G015 is an old tire but proven. Tough. Great ride. Fuel economy may not be the best tho.

All this talk about new tires being better is BS. A lot of them were rushed to market to capture the AT wave of new drivers.

 

[highfructose]

Seems like they’re all 6 in one hand half a dozen in the other.

Pick the one that looks the coolest and wins championships: k02.

 

[Sinister]

I’m on set #2 with the KO2 and Never had an issue with balancing and they last forever. I can’t comment on the other 2 choices though. Never had an issue with rain, snow or beach sand. The only “issue” I could see is they are heavy and get a bit loud towards the end of there life cycle. I would absolutely buy them again. Now only if the Michelin defenders had a nicer side profile……

 

[AnyMal]

We def need more geolander x-at feedback. I really really wanted to try them but they are so heavy. That may be a good thing but im not sure where the weight comes from.

I will add -
KO2s look the best IMO
My A/T 3 were louder than I expected
Perhaps a G015 isnt a bad choice for OP
Have you considered the Ridge Grappler?
I wouldnt hesitate for a P or C on a 20 at all

 

[Tex68w]

Huge fan of the Ridge Grapplers but they are more of a Hybrid than a true A/T.

 

[AnyMal]

Huge fan of the Ridge Grapplers but they are more of a Hybrid than a true A/T.

True. That’s probably my next tire if a toyo hybrid isnt out by then. Its got a bit of everything, quiet, aggressive, comfy. Ive never heard compliants about them.

 

[Tex68w]

True. That’s probably my next tire if a toyo hybrid isnt out by then. Its got a bit of everything, quiet, aggressive, comfy. Ive never heard compliants about them.

I ran two sets on the GX, my father had a set on his Tacoma, my brother in law has a set on his Sequoia, my other brother in law a set on his Tundra and now my sister a set on her Yukon. It's safe to say that we are big fans and not a single issue out of the bunch. I really like the Toyo RT as well, roughly the Toyo equivalent, but every set of Toyo's I've owned has required some balancing magic, but that wouldn't stop me from running them again in the future.

 

[hickuptruck]

Nitto Recon Grappler.

Far more aggressive than any of the 3. But not a Ridge Grappler.

I'd also be willing to put a Kenda AT/hybrid tire on seeing how recently expensive At3/WP/Ko2 have gotten.

 

[Cincodemustache]

Nitto Recon Grappler.

Far more aggressive than any of the 3. But not a Ridge Grappler.

I'd also be willing to put a Kenda AT/hybrid tire on seeing how recently expensive At3/WP/Ko2 have gotten.

I like those Recons, only 3 size options for 18 inch wheels though. Maybe they will expand offerings soon.

 

[DadWagon]

The concept of "number of plies" doesn't really apply (see what I did there?) to radial tires. That was in the old bias-ply days.

Yes an e-load tire will have more structure to allow the greater inflation pressures, but it is an incremental difference and the jury is out on whether this will help avoid tire failure on trail, which seems to be the primary reason people that don't need the load rating run an e-load tire.

Also, it is possible they change other aspects of the tire construction to bring the friction down, and thereby increase the load rating.

For instance.. Per the spec sheet (if we can believe it) in the 285/70R17 that I run the E-load AT3 is actually lighter than the C-load, despite being slightly taller. They surely didn't take material out of the cords, otherwise it couldn't handle 80psi vs 50.. so where did it come from? Rubber? Maybe on the sidewall? Would you rather have slightly stronger cords or more rubber to avoid flats? Or could it be more advanced/lighter materials internally?

They may be tougher, but may not. Either way the idea that an E-load gives you four more plies of cotton than a C-load is no longer accurate.

You are better off just choosing a tire that isn't notorious for sidewall problems.. then choose the load range that is appropriate, vs spend extra on a harder to find tire that is more expensive and offers no clear benefit.

Now if the size you want is only available in e-load, then go for it..

You hit the nail on the head here, the size I'd like is only available in E. If someone can provide a very similar size in D or C I'm all ears.

 

[DadWagon]

Nitto Recon Grappler.

Far more aggressive than any of the 3. But not a Ridge Grappler.

I'd also be willing to put a Kenda AT/hybrid tire on seeing how recently expensive At3/WP/Ko2 have gotten.

Any experience with the Recon Grapplers?

 

[TeCKis300]

The reality of LT load rating options in the market.

That's not to say an LT-E could never ride well. There's ways to compensate for that including:

1) Inflation pressure (to a degree) - Many have been suffering from ride quality compromises from RCTIP recommendations. It's okay to tailor and use less air pressure to suit use and conditions. Just as it's okay to adjust air pressure up for heavy loads.
2) Tire model - some well known AT tires have designs and firmer sidewall than others, leading to firmer ride
3) Sidewall height - by either increasing overall tire diameter or reducing wheel size
4) Tire width - Wider tires can reduce sidewall spring rate with more curve in the sidewall profile. Versus narrow fitments on the same width wheel which has the sidewalls square with relatively stiffer geometry.

 

[AnyMal]

The reality of LT load rating options in the market.

That's not to say an LT-E could never ride well. There's ways to compensate for that including:

1) Inflation pressure (to a degree) - Many have been suffering from ride quality compromises from RCTIP recommendations. It's okay to tailor and use less air pressure to suit use and conditions. Just as it's okay to adjust air pressure up for heavy loads.
2) Tire model - some well known AT tires have designs and firmer sidewall than others, leading to firmer ride
3) Sidewall height - by either increasing overall tire diameter or reducing wheel size
4) Tire width - Wider tires can reduce sidewall spring rate with more curve in the sidewall profile. Versus narrow fitments on the same width wheel which has the sidewalls square with relatively stiffer geometry.

View attachment 2914108

Bingo.

Tire size and wheel should be considered together and your first question should be wether or not you want to trim / roll or modify.

I will say that for a 275 an 8.5” width is decent and for a 285 i would lean heavily towards 9” wheel width. This is where a stiffer sidewall has helped me immensely.

IMO the 275/70-18x9 is ideal as well as 285/70|75-19x9.5 if there were such options. 285/70 on 17x8.5 is pushing it and I wouldn’t repeat that if i could avoid it next time. For a 295 a 20” wheel would be a logical choice.

Theres a lot of factors at play and they all impact one another. If i were to pick what the best option would be for the 200 Id lean towards 285/70r18 C or D load. Unfortunately they are only E load but the contributing factors of 8” sidewall and correct pressure could easily rectify a lot of the stiffness. The ridge grappler does come in that size…

The only real problem albeit small is 18” wheel weight and beefy 34” real sized tire will be heavy but id still take it. There are solid lightweight 18s such as the TRD BBS forged. A setup like that would put you at apprx 25lbs + 60lbs fitment of 85 lbs not including spacers. Thats only 5 lbs outside of an LX oem design envelope (stealing the term) for example. With the added pressure of a sensor lift it would be negligible. You can even get some wheels made in that weight range with custom offset of +35 or just get off the shelf exotic +40s. This would be probably the perfect setup and at this point i wished id just have cried once myself. Oh the things i know now after diving into all the rabbit holes!!!

 

[bwell]

Just to confuse you even more. I've had three sets of KO2's, two of them didn't have a combined 30k miles before Michelin(owns BFG) warrantied them both which left me with my 3rd set. No issues with punctures, but frequent balancing after some milage on all of them.

I just took off a set of 285/55r20 AT3W's. No issues ever, balanced twice over 42k miles or so and still have approximately 9/32 of tread depth per tire.

I will say the AT3W's became much louder over time than the KO2's. But that is relative to the size/width difference.

The size you want to run is also going to become quite loud after several years and a decent amount of milage.

I rotate tires every 5k miles.

I was going to go with the Yokohama GO15's, but after supply issues at the time ended up with Nokian Rotiva Plus in a load range D.

I will say the AT3W's tread stood up to harsh minimally maintained, rocky forest roads better over time than the KO2's in my experience.

 

[CharlieS]

One more data point - I've run BFG KO and KO2 for decades on a dozen different vehicles including 10 Toyotas, 5 different Land Cruisers (2 of them 200 series) and have been 100% happy with them, year round in every condition in the Northeast US, EXCEPT clay-like mud, where the lugs fill up and they become slicks.

I haven't run any of the others that you asked about, so I can't comment.

I find tire discussions fairly useless. Five other people are just as likely to tell you the BFG KO is the worst tire they've ever owned. What are you to take away?