Bad Cold start HJ61 12ht

[mkjtiessen]

All right i have been reading lots on this forum about cold starts for the 12HT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1QeMwH7Po&feature=youtu.be

please copy and paste to view video

for what i understand of this engine i think
Glow plate-suppose to come on at certain temp, not sure when. i leave the key in the acc position to allow the plate to heat up. no glow light on the dash?? ever since i have purchased the vehicle. this is all for pre ignition

when i turn the key normally she putters and does not fire. try again and nothing. if i apply a little throttle i get massive amounts of smoke and a terrible start

trouble shooting/ i have taken a test light and tested the power to the glow plate not getting any. could this be a thermostat issue? not cold enough(-15c)

please help not sure if this is a bad issue or not

same problem in summer not as bad no throttle needed just smokey

 

[jb BJ73]

The direct injection toyotas (like the 12ht) are apparently very easy to start even in pretty cold conditions, if you are having problems you might want to get the injector nozzles checked for spray pattern and opening pressure, especially if you're having issues in normal weather as well.

Not sure what temps the glow plate is supposed to come on sorry, but would imagine it should come on around 0C at least

 

[blis]

Definitely not starting properly, might be it aint even firing on all cylinders... Glow screen is supposed to come when it gets below 0c or so, -15c is definitely cold enough for the glow screen to kick in...

Possibly a faulty glow relay or temp sender (the screen itself doesnt usually break)... Somethings also worth checking is valve adjustment perhaps get the injectors serviced...

ps. replace fuel filter and bleed the system, also empty the water separator under the frame...

 

[BCR4619]

I had this happen but without the smoke on cold nights... Turns out my factory fuel rubber lines going in and out of the filter had small cracks that would let air into the system on start up, replaced those and no problem since.

 

[swamprunner]

easy way to check in see if the glow screen is working....what does your volt gauge read when you turn the key to the on position? If the glow screen is working it should drop well below where it would normally be if the key was on and the screen wasn't on. You can unplug the pigtail at the block for the temp sensor. This will make it come on any time the key is in the on position. Its the green plug underneath the intake.

 

[mkjtiessen]

in this video i dont know if this is a way to diagnose a injector/ cylinder issue or not??

so i place my finger on the lines of the injectors and felt vibration in all but one cylinder.

is this a good way to determine to pull the injector out and see for issues. what is your recomendations for this issue i seem to have.

also a piece of info that i am hearing is a ticking over the normal noises from the engine. i have 2 videos that may be of assistance


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AGGthRf_z4&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcORfiUkNzc&feature=youtu.be

 

[mkjtiessen]

in addition to my trouble shooting, took a screwdriver to each injector place my ear against the butt end and was able to drain the ambient noise out and have a more direct sound. with this i confirmed my theory a little but on the touch of the injectors. the sound in each cylinder had consistency to the next except for the one i point out in the video i am leading to believe that i am not firing on all cylinders.

i have never had a diesel where i have started to have to pull injectors out of if there is anyone that reads this and can link me to some info that would be much appreciated

matt

 

[mkjtiessen]

@ swamprunner

if i remove the pigtail do i risk the chance of the screen always bieng on after the engine comes to temp or does a timer kick it off??

 

[cruiserpilot]

Check the connections on the glow screen, check all the elec connections. I had the same issue last winter in Calgary. When I got home I found out that the connections were all poor, and it starts fine now. BTW I run 12V on mine, so it takes longer for the screen to really heat up.
I just left it in Calgary covered in a tarp for 2 months, I guess I'll see how it starts when I get home.

 

[Dieseler]

Need to backup here a bit.
How long have you had the 61
How long have you been experiencing this problem.
The glow light does not come on in warm temps it will flash for a split second when switching to the start position with the key.
Have you tried holding the key to just before crank for 10 seconds and then crank....the glow screen when functioning properly does not need a glow duration but this does help in very cold starts.
If you have a bad injector it will stumble even when the engine is warmed up just like a bad spark plug you will notice it on the tach at idle.
If you have air penetrating the system it usually smooths itself out after startup unless it is a major leak then the idle wont smooth out.
Also when changing out the filter just top up the new one with diesel and you wont have to prime...what few air bubbles will work themselves through the system.

 

[mkjtiessen]

i have had it since august started to experience bad smoke starts as soon as i got it the glow light never came on. at all. found a wire that was broken reconnected and the light comes on and the screen receives power to it and heats up to the touch on a cold engine with out cranking it.

also the tak sits at 800 rpm after the engine comes to temp and idles nice this is a reason i lead to also believe i am running on six cylinders. i get good fuel mileage.


terrible hill climb on highway i dont like to floor it often up these hills so i end up dropping speed fast. i am thinking this is common for these vehicles though.

i run consistant temperature weather i am running a heavy foot to a light foot.

i am conserned with a ticking noise i am hearing if there is anyone you know in calgary alberta please show them this link so they can get a hold of me or pass a number on to me

matt

 

[blis]

That ticking sound when throttling it sounds off to me, not normal... possibly valve noise or as suspected, injector... Anyway, i personally would check the valve clearances and adjust them as needed before digging deeper into engine....

For the 12ht, it is perfectly happy on highway (i can push 120kmh for hours without problems) and generally hills aint a problem either...

For reference here is mine, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39TgUCWHHaE sounds about how healthy 12ht should...

 

[Dieseler]

Are you talking the Coq heading out of West Bank to Merrit if so that is a steep long grade to climb IIR the last time I did it I was able to climb it in 4th not sure what speed I was doing but a was faster than the big rigs which is better than my FJ62 which gets passed by the big rigs.

 

[blackscout]

Hey Matt how goes it buddy? Cowtown looks Cold. I can see snow on the top of ok mountain but that's as close as its got so far. Take it slow With the issue your having it is likely something simple.. First you should check the fuel lines and replace the filter if it is original. The loss of power leads me to think it might not be getting enough fuel. You may want to start by checking your fuel pressure. You may be able to put a gauge inline? A partly clogged filter or bad lines would cause that. So start there. If that does not work check the injector. I am not super familiar with the injectors on your motor but you need to pull the one your think is the problem and clean it and check the spray. If it is the injector clean them all. Has nothing to do With the glow screen if it was doing it before you left. The fact that you got it working is great. It was likely never needed here. Because it runs fine when warm I don't think it is a major problem. You wheeled that rig more in the time you've had it than it was ever wheeled before you. There may be a screen on the pick up in the tank and it might be plugged up. I would definitely check the fuel delivery. The big puff of smoke makes me think one or more of the injectors may have some fine s*** in the messing up the spray. Does that thing have a start up injector? That might be the problem there. The puff is from too much fuel charge to air. The diesel is not all being burned. Does the cloud smell like diesel or oil? If oil we will need to talk about that. Did you change the oil? What did you put back in?
How is the new shop? They may have a pressure gauge you can use? How are the guys? Is the guy you are working with cool? He may be able to help. Sorry I missed your call. I posted on here because I know your working right now.

 

[mkjtiessen]

Problem resolved

1no glow screen activating.
2wiered ticking
- so if you come across this thread and want to post a reply i am open to some more advice but please pm me also, as my smoke issue has halted. i removed pigtail from the block, previously i was getting about half a second of glow time after i found the split in the wire in my wiring harness. tried the glow screen and got the light and screen to activate for a short period. not long enough. removed pig tail to find a large build up of residue inside of the plug not allowing for good readings. after removing i now receive proper timing on the glow screen for my current cold start temperatures starts with no headache

 

[Tim-HJ61]

Weird ticking.

Take a deep breath.

There is a known design issue with the original pistons on a 12ht where the top ring flogs out the ring groove. In bad situations this can result in a piece of the top ring dislodging and sitting on too of the piston, creating what others refer to as a weird ticking noise.

This occurs, according to some reports, not all, at around the 300,00km mark

It may or may not be the source of your weird ticking. It is resolved by replacing all pistons, honing bores and putting it all back together again. Aftermarket pistons have a steel insert in the ring groove that resolves this issue.

Breath again now.

Tim