Auburn pro series limited slip differantial

[ander42b]

does anyone have experience with the Auburns pro series limited slip differantial ????????? How does it in normal steet driving and four wheeling ???????? Most of my four wheeling is down rough forestry roads and fire roads. Thanks jason

 

[Spook50]

My impression is that if you don't lift a tire up off the ground, an LSD is a good way to go. If you end up lifting a wheel, that whole axle is rendered useless just like when you have an open diff. I know a lot of people still prefer full lockers (whether automatic of selectable), but I think with the wheeling you describe, LSDs front and back would serve you just fine. Though I can't speak for their behavior in regular on-road driving.

 

[gregnash]

@KWalkerM I believe that Kyle has an auburn locker in his truck. My understanding is that they aren't great on street especially if it is a bit wet or slippery. Could be wrong though

 

[brian]

i have one in the rear of a 40 and a 60. they are better than an open diff. my 60 with pizza cutters was a pig on wet or snowy roads, with the lsd it has more motivation to go. no negative on road traits. not worth much offroad on anything more than dry fire roads.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

i have one in the rear of a 40 and a 60. they are better than an open diff. my 60 with pizza cutters was a pig on wet or snowy roads, with the lsd it has more motivation to go. no negative on road traits. not worth much offroad on anything more than dry fire roads.

That's good info. I've been wondering if a LSD would improve performance in snow and ice. This and fire roads are the most challenging conditions I expect to see in my 60. Might be worth looking into

 

[Freewheel]

I had an Auburn in the back of my old S-10 blazer and it worked quite nicely in the snow. The Aussie Locker I have in my 60 has actually caused some problems for me - mainly slipping off side cambered roads while climbing uphill. The 2 rear wheels turning together want to walk sideways if they spin on an off camber slope. Your rear end can slip right off the road really quickly. I always have to chain up if there's any sidehill at all.

 

[Elbert]

I had two in my 60 a few years ago when I first started with my LC obsession. Great on the pavement traction tool, but like all LSD's the tires have to spin for it to work. Partially good tool for muddy conditions where the tires spin off-road. About useless off-road on hard surface (rocks) off road. No bad habits or influences from the auburn units (i had one int he front and rear axle). Good tool as noted for on pavement traction.

If you ever plan to get serious about off-road....stop... and install a locker rather than an LSD.

The auburn is probably the only LSD unit available for US market, and I thought they were well made, I had zero problems with them, but their performance off-road is very limited and only work in muddy sloppy conditions, remember the tires have to be spinning for an LSD to work, which is exactly what you don't want in rocky situations. A locker is the tool to have off-road ...hands down.

While its expensive a selectable locker like the ARB is best in my view and then something like the no-slip, or Aussie or Detroit mechanical lockers are better suited for off-road. The ARB does not have any "bad manners" the other mechanical lockers can be aggravating on the pavement.

The larger the tires...the less the bad manners are felt in the truck and if an automatic transmission it too lessens the bad manners, but they are still there when on the pavement and using mechanical lockers.

I have a no-slip locker in the rear axle and a Aussie locker in the front, this was not planned, it just ended up that way....since the lockers were installed at different times I, bought what was in stock.

 

[Elbert]

That's good info. I've been wondering if a LSD would improve performance in snow and ice. This and fire roads are the most challenging conditions I expect to see in my 60. Might be worth looking into

LSD is exactly the tool that would improve traction from an open diff on snow and ice (on the pavement) but big trade-offs in off road performance.
Remember a LSD requires the tires to spin for it to function. LSD units have been the historical traction enhancer for performance cars for a few decades at this point. LSD's dont' have bad habits and don't otherwise negatively impact on the road driving.

A selectable locker like the ARB unit is the best of both worlds. When not engaged the ARB performs like an open diff (so you don't have any torque push or ratcheting bad manners), but when the ARB is engaged you have the tires locked so that power goes to each tire and one side will not move without the other side moving, thus the word "locked" or "locker". Most of the mechanical lockers allow some minor slipping between the two tires to account for making turns...ie the "ratcheting" behavior.

Some people run "welded" rear ends or what is known as a spool. These modificaitons do not allow for any flex and if one tire turns an inch the other tire does the same (in my example).

The bad manners of the aussie or no-slip are not that bad on the pavement, but they do take some getting use to and can be aggrivating, especially the smaller tires run. I've grown use to my lockers and would drive my truck anywhere....snow,ice..whatever (which I have and which I do), but you have to know what to expect and how the truck will behave. The part about mechanical lockers is that you can't turn them off, so if installed in the rear axle...its always there and always working, once 4wd is engaged and the hubs are locked..same thing on the front.

Best to save up and go with a selectable locker like the ARB or understand the trade-offs with the other units offered. I wish I would have just jumped off into the ARB game right up front.

Another good bit of advice I would offer.....go drive with someone who has the setup you are considering in the conditions you deal with...to understand first hand the behavior of the device/mod in question.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

I'm going to move my fzj80 elocker from the rear to the front, and install an LSD in the back. my thought process is, that for really tough stuff, I can lock the front to pull thru it. For everything else, the LSD will kick in if needed...the only down side I see to having one LSD and one locker or open diff, is the need to carry 2 types of oil...

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

Thanks for that info @Elbert .

My 60 is a DD and now with the Vortec it is our long distance family hauler. 99% of our driving is on road. Our family also skis and we often drive in the mountains on snow and ice. I like that the LSD is there and ready to grab traction whenever but has no other effect on road manners.

You say you ran one in the front axle also? Did that have any effect on steering/handling?

Thanks!

-Ed

 

[Elbert]

Thanks for that info @Elbert .

My 60 is a DD and now with the Vortec it is our long distance family hauler. 99% of our driving is on road. Our family also skis and we often drive in the mountains on snow and ice. I like that the LSD is there and ready to grab traction whenever but has no other effect on road manners.

You say you ran one in the front axle also? Did that have any effect on steering/handling?

Thanks!

-Ed

no...impact to the front at all. Remember that when the front axle is not engaged and the hubs are not locked you are not impacted. So if you had an LSD in the front axle...the only time it will be working is when 4wd is engaged and the front hubs are locked. Even then the wheels have to be spinning so a torque load for the LSD to actually apply...so bottom line answer is basically no negative impact.

You need so called traction aids in the front and rear.....others wise you have an open diff and if one tire spins and looses traction the other tire is going to do nothing (it will not spin or have power).

Here is how I drive in the snow / ice / mud / rocks... (yes I know I live in AL)... anyway... When I have the expectation that things are bad...not just normal.. I lock the front hubs......and then when I get in slippery stuff or whatever I stop and simply engage 4wd with the transfer case shifter and I'm in 4wd with all the traction aids I have on (because the rear is working anyway) and now I've engaged the front too.. Get past the bad section and I simply disengage 4wd with the transfercase shifter...and back to normal driving leaving the hubs locked for the duration as long as I suspect the road/trail conditions merit 4wd. Later on I unlock the hubs when appropriate.

When I had LSD in the front and back....and conditions were bad.....I simply locked the hubs and engaged 4wd as necessary without concern and without negative impact either engaged or disengaged, or I would run for extended periods with 4wd engaged and hubs locked..because LSD is not impacting you negatively. Of course I'm not doing this on hard pavement.... snow/ice/mud.

Otherwise no issue with LSD in the front differential....I certainly would prefer an LSD over nothing.

Normally I assume that when someone has 4wd engaged they have reduced their road speed to compensate for the road / trail conditions.

 

[ander42b]

Best to save up and go with a selectable locker like the ARB or understand the trade-offs with the other units offered. I wish I would have just jumped off into the ARB game right up front.

Another good bit of advice I would offer.....go drive with someone who has the setup you are considering in the conditions you deal with...to understand first hand the behavior of the device/mod in question.

Elbert,

I hear ya on getting the ARB. This kind of an emergency repair. I brought cruiser into my new mechinic with a leak of the rear differantial. My previous mechinic had rebuilt the read end as far as new bearing and seal at my request. this semi rebuild was done in December 2013. Then about fall of 2014 the rear pinon seal had to be replaced again due pissing out diff fiuld like a drunk horse. Now November 2015 the rear pinon seal is leaking agian. This time instead of going back previous mechinic I took the cruiser to my mechinic that solved a lot of problems with my 5.3 Vortec V8. My new mechinic said the rear end had torn its self a part. Hins the need for kinda of an emergency repair. I told Dave my new mechinic that I want to use all Toyota parts in the repair....but called me with a quote of $1300 bucks for just the rear ring and pinon at his cost. So the better/cheaper solution was to go with 4.56 gears for front and rear and add a locker. Dave knows my job situation (long hours and low pay) so the best option was to go with an Auburn unit. I wanted an electronic locking locker or an ARB locker.

So my real question is for you Elbert since you have all ready be down that road of having a Limited Slip Diff is the road manners both on road and off road. The cruiser is my daily driver and family hunting/exporlation reg. So here goes question number one:

1) for the on road manners I like to get into the throttle having a 5.3 Vortec is a lot of fun. What does the Auburn limit slip unit do when doing Stright ahead full throttle getting off the line. What about doing a right hand turn at a stop light and getting into the throttle?

2) for off road the driving that I do that I'm concern with is the old, water erosion fire roads that have foot to a foot and half rock ledges. One tire maybe air born or have very little dirt under it so when I stop and then hit the throttle to get up and over the little ledge will snap my axle shaft. All I have is the stock semi float axle.

3) how will I know when the locker is enguage. How do I unlock it or know when it unlocks. I hate to be driving up a steep slope with pot holes and feel that I have torque going to both wheels and then it unlocks when leaving one pot hole and going into another.

Thanks Jason

 

[brian]

1. it will probably draw a number 11 down the road.
1a. it will draw a number 22 on the road around the corner.

2. no snapping axles. the tire with the least traction will spin with almost all the power, while the wheel with traction will get almost no power. careful application of the hand brake can help you get over the ledge.

3. there is no locking. an lsd doesn't positively tie both axles together. it puts a friction clutch in the middle of them. so there is no unlocking. the clutch pack is a wear item. constantly putting it in a situation where one tire has traction and the other does not, will wear the clutch pack out. once the clutches are worn, the rear will behave just as an open rear.

 

[ander42b]

1. it will probably draw a number 11 down the road.
1a. it will draw a number 22 on the road around the corner.

Hugh ??????? It will do a 11 or 22. What. 11 MPH ????? 22 MPH. I do t get what you are trying to communicate????????

I want to know what is going on in the auburn unit second by second as I go down the road. What is the power/tuque split into and out of the turn?????? What is the stess with the tires ?????

 

[AlaskanWheeler]

I thought the Auburn used torque applied to the side gears to "lock" the differential? Not necessarily wheel spin...I dunno

 

[Elbert]

The auburn unit is an LSD... not a locker.

 

[Elbert]

Elbert,

I hear ya on getting the ARB. This kind of an emergency repair. I brought cruiser into my new mechinic with a leak of the rear differantial. My previous mechinic had rebuilt the read end as far as new bearing and seal at my request. this semi rebuild was done in December 2013. Then about fall of 2014 the rear pinon seal had to be replaced again due pissing out diff fiuld like a drunk horse. Now November 2015 the rear pinon seal is leaking agian. This time instead of going back previous mechinic I took the cruiser to my mechinic that solved a lot of problems with my 5.3 Vortec V8. My new mechinic said the rear end had torn its self a part. Hins the need for kinda of an emergency repair. I told Dave my new mechinic that I want to use all Toyota parts in the repair....but called me with a quote of $1300 bucks for just the rear ring and pinon at his cost. So the better/cheaper solution was to go with 4.56 gears for front and rear and add a locker. Dave knows my job situation (long hours and low pay) so the best option was to go with an Auburn unit. I wanted an electronic locking locker or an ARB locker.

So my real question is for you Elbert since you have all ready be down that road of having a Limited Slip Diff is the road manners both on road and off road. The cruiser is my daily driver and family hunting/exporlation reg. So here goes question number one:

1) for the on road manners I like to get into the throttle having a 5.3 Vortec is a lot of fun. What does the Auburn limit slip unit do when doing Stright ahead full throttle getting off the line. What about doing a right hand turn at a stop light and getting into the throttle? Recall hot-rods or performance cars...that have high horse power...if you don't have a traction aid in the rear axle...when full power is applied from a stop ...generally one tire will essentially go up in smoke and your effective traction is poor. Add the LSD...and it helps move power to both tires...therefore putting power down to both tires and so the torque does not overwhelm jsut one tire and you have power to both tires....and thus wheelspin is reduced.

2) for off road the driving that I do that I'm concern with is the old, water erosion fire roads that have foot to a foot and half rock ledges. One tire maybe air born or have very little dirt under it so when I stop and then hit the throttle to get up and over the little ledge will snap my axle shaft. All I have is the stock semi float axle.

3) how will I know when the locker is enguage. How do I unlock it or know when it unlocks. I hate to be driving up a steep slope with pot holes and feel that I have torque going to both wheels and then it unlocks when leaving one pot hole and going into another.

Thanks Jason

Its been a while since I had the auburn units but they react the same as most any other LSD. Appears people are confusing LSD (limited slip differential with a locker)

(1) The auburn unit behaves just a LSD in a Z28, mustang...name your sport car or some trucks. If you have wheel spin the the auburn unit will attempt to "send more more to the tire that's not spinning as fast or for simplicity send equal amounts of power to both tires". Assuming you are referring the rear axle. The LSD will have no negative impact to the vehicle in motion on the pavement (has been my experience). If anything it will allow the vehicle to reduce wheel spin under hard throttle. From the driver seat no negative impact...other than better traction in a smooth and managed way.

(2) on rocks the idea is to go slow and manage the forward movement ...a LSD is not effective off road where you want to go slow and not have wheel spin, because while a LSD only works with wheel spin, if you try to induce wheel spin on hard surface off road its likely things start breaking....you also don't want wheel hops etc. The LSD will not break your axle or I've never heard of that happening.. no real impact from the LSD in this scenario....it will not be that helpful. If you get your wheels spinning and you come come down on a hard surface withe the wheels spinning under engine power....thats when parts start breaking under high traction scenarios...

(3) If you are talking about the LSD again...its a limited slip...not a locker. On a limited slip....you really know its working when you feel the vehicle move forward under tire spin and you notice both tires are pulling rather than just one side...this it happens under wheel spin because that's what is required for a LSD to operate. The wheel spin is the issue that you want to avoid in many situations offroad where rocks or hard surfaces are. Now in mud....how do you know the LSD is working....you have to hit the mud hole under power...you can't crawl through it (again remember the wheel spin issue). SO you hit the mud hole under power and stay in the throttle to keep the tires spinning and you have power at both tires (left and right tire on the same axle). Which hopefully moves you forward, depending on your tires and other variables. A LSD is seamless in its operation...you don't do anything but drive and about the only tool you have is to modulate the gas pedal in the deep mud, since in my experience that seemed to offer better results than just hammering down on the throttle.

The single biggest issue with a LSD is that its basically useless at crawl speed...where you don't want tire spin, yet you want traction from both tires. AS noted a LSD is a good traction aid for on the road use...its not a very good traction aid off road. When I had the auburn units I would have to hit obstacles too fast and it increased the opportunities to damage things, so I went the mechanical locker route.

A LSD has no bad manners that I'm aware of, but it has few positive attributes offroad expect where you can power through obstacles like mud holes or maybe sandy areas under power. Where you need slow speed without wheel spin teh locker rules......

I would not be bothered with buying Toyota parts for the rear differential (Ring and Pinion) or try to adapt some other toyota parts from an 80 or whatever. With ring and pinion you have various choices in gear mfg...like yukon and others. For an LSD you have one choice that I know about and thats Auburn. For pure mechanical lockers you have aussie, power-trax and others, for selectable lockers you have ARB and potentially other options to include a cable locker...etc. Always a good idea to stay in the mainstream and run what's been proven and where parts are accessible.


Mechanical lockers like the aussie and no-slip and others...never turn off, they are always working as long as power is feed to the differential and the axles are engaged. So on a rear axle with locker the locker works all the time (really don't see its operation at speed), because if you drive your 60 like a corvette you'll have some other problems. The way you control the locker in the front axle (as I mentioned above with a mechanical locker) is that you lock the front hubs and turn 4wd on and off with with your transfercase shifter as needed, there is no ablity to control a mechanical locker in the rear axle (given the units I mentioned.

With a selectable locker like the ARB, you engage 4wd as needed. To engage or operate the lockers, either rear or front or both. You first turn on your air compressor to provide compressed air, and you then switch on the lockers as needed for whatever obstacle you need to make it through.
You then disengage the lockers once through the obstacle.

How do you know when a locker is working (both tires turn roughly the same speed) which provides traction. on hard surfaces you will feel the rear end torque steer to the right on pavement and you will feel the ratcheting around a hard turn where one tire chirps and the other tire chirps or locks... On the front axle you will known the front locker is engaged because your steering will become noticeable hard to turn, sometimes impossible to turn....thats why you have to turn off the locker to make hard turns sometimes. on the rear axle off road you can feel both tires pulling, most of the time thats good, but sometimes the rear end will want to walk over to the right to far under power and you have to figure out another solution which may require winching.


Keep the terms LSD, mechanical locker and selectable mechanical locker separate in your mind as you contemplate the differences... many people run mechanical lockers (like the so-called lunch box lockers Aussie, no-slip, lock rite becuase they are easy to setup and not crazy expensive, then some run the detroit locker becuase its one of the stronges/toughest ones but is expensive). Other run a selectable locker which is really the best of both worlds....you can control it and its tough (ARB) and it has good road manners when off, but the trade off is its expensive and expensive to install plus you need a compressor too.

some people like the mechanical lockers because they work all the time and require no other parts or compressed air, the trade-off is that they had some bad manners on the pavement (torque steer, ratcheting, and they can transmit torque through the chassis and driveline which bother people).

Wheel spin is required sometimes offroad to clear the tires, but the problem with an LSD...is that when you need tractiong and you don't want wheel spin...you are dead in the water...because and LSD is not going to help at all and you will be just like you had an open diff..

THe other thing worth mentioning is that with an LSD....if you get one tire off the ground....a LSD is not goiing to be helpful at that point...or it going to be really less than impressive. A locker of either type (selectable or always on) is going to provide power to both tires regardless if one is in the air or not.

You need to go out and ride with some people on the trails and on the pavement who have either so you can experience how they work. I say for any truck that goes off-road...some type of locker is essential both front and rear and they accept trade-offs. Of course that depends on what off-road really means.

 

[ScottT]

I've used auburn lsds in my fj 60 for about 25 yrs now. Noticeable effect on tracking in the front. You have to sort of let it track a little on its own in the dirt. Climbs hills with loose rock way better than stock. Not super great in deep snow unless you're pulling a trailer. Seems like the trailer stabilizes the shift from side to side by the lsd. I don't do much on hard rock so the difference from lockers isn't an issue for me. When you talk about it not working unless a wheel is spinning that is true, but it doesn't take a lot of spin to lock it. I can feel them at work under 5 mph.

 

[roma042987]

just my .02cents I currently have a auburn lsd in the front of my 40. If the hubs are locked the truck drives like a front wheel drive care with too much power. It torque steers like crazy whether its it 2 or 4wd and you find yourself fighting the steering the whole time. It is nerve racking to say the least. I was not expecting that when I installed it. Maybe mine is set up tighter than most if it has clutch packs although it may be a helical design for all I know.

 

[cruisermatt]

just my .02cents I currently have a auburn lsd in the front of my 40. If the hubs are locked the truck drives like a front wheel drive care with too much power. It torque steers like crazy whether its it 2 or 4wd and you find yourself fighting the steering the whole time. It is nerve racking to say the least. I was not expecting that when I installed it. Maybe mine is set up tighter than most if it has clutch packs although it may be a helical design for all I know.

You should try a lockright in the front... Even worse.