Anyone Made Your Own Front Control Arms?

[Tools R Us]

I'm just a contrarian here. I think the limited flex and rigidity of the 80's front end is a strength, because it is such a heavy vehicle with a long wheelbase. The fact that the front end doesn't compress back and push down with an overly flexy front end allows this tank to climb a lot better than it should for its size and weight.

I really thought I would redesign the front end, but with use I have come to value it. The rigidity controls 35's nicely onroad and the stock arms are pretty much indestructible sliders offroad that still climb well. Given it can already handle any trail that I would take a rig this big on, the only real issue is caster. Cut and turn is the best solution.

Nay

If your happy with the stock performance, then there is no need to change it.

Cut and turn is less than ideal on the 80, the tie rod is between the radius arms and pinion. If the knuckles are rotated to correct caster the tie rod hits the arms, requiring new radius arms and/or steering arms.

 

[NW-sickboy]

Cut and turn is less than ideal on the 80, the tie rod is between the radius arms and pinion. If the knuckles are rotated to correct caster the tie rod hits the arms, requiring new radius arms and/or steering arms.

I dont have stock arems and would have done cut and turn in accourdance to that...

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

Will be installing longer Bilsteins, don't see why I "need" a four link to do that?.

dont see why you want to fab new arms for them either, but your looking at it, and 4 link isnt much more work.

I prefer the comfort of bushings for my rig, don't want hard joints and their vibration and maintenance issues in my daily driver. Not a big fan of caster plates, they reduce clearance and add to the leverage force on the brackets

If the castor is correct with plates, the diff isnt chnaged in clearance by any more than arms putting the diff in the correct spot for the castor, and with heims, you can still run rubber bushing at the chassis end, solves the 'hard joint' issue.

And you want longer shocks, and big lift, and want new arms to move the diff to correct castor, and you dont want plates because they increase leverage force, yet you wish to go to a fabbed up front arm set up, over a one piece forged steel arm.......

 

[cruiserdan]

Too much flex makes yer beer go flat sooner............



I'm out on that............

 

[Dusty]

I am in the process of lifting my truck also. collecting bits. a 4 link (or better radiur arm) for this truck is severely limited by the tie rod behind the akle. it is in the way. So why dont we just move it to the front of the axle? once this is done cut and turn mods and good four links (5 link in this case as the track bar must stay) are possible. Action jackson placed his 3rd link above the axle on the pass side. space above the axle is limited on the drivers side

Even if the current axle radius arm brackets and frame brackets were left alone we could fab new radius arms for those brackets with much more clearance if only the tie rod wasn't in the way

dusty

 

[clownmidget]

Dusty, the panhard becomes the problem when you look into a "high steer" setup. Marlin's new "6 hole" steering arms are the ticket but the placement of the panhard, if retained, gets fuzzy. I always love this shot of the Aussie arm flip with hi-steer

 

[FJBen]

Dusty, the panhard becomes the problem when you look into a "high steer" setup. Marlin's new "6 hole" steering arms are the ticket but the placement of the panhard, if retained, gets fuzzy. I always love this shot of the Aussie arm flip with hi-steer

I still don't understand what the arm flip does for flex. I'm assuming it's the same correct? It's still the twisting of the axle that causes the binding. So I gather it's mostly for taller lifts/caster correction?

 

[landtank]

I still don't understand what the arm flip does for flex. I'm assuming it's the same correct? It's still the twisting of the axle that causes the binding. So I gather it's mostly for taller lifts/caster correction?

I beleive it has to do with the bushings position. On top they are more horizontal to each other so they flex easier. Underneath they are more at a slope and bind more.


Personally at 4" of lift, arms seem a waste to me.

 

[Tools R Us]

dont see why you want to fab new arms for them either, but your looking at it, and 4 link isnt much more work.

Not "looking at it" they are on the truck, wheeled, beat on, proven. For you, being in the offroad fab biz, a 4 link isn't much more work, it probably goes something like this? Guys pull my truck in and link it, let me know when it's done. For me and my daily driver junk, I don't have the luxury of having the truck down to pull the axle, fab brackets, etc. So, yes building arms over a couple of weeks, while driving the truck, then installing them is easier for me.

If the castor is correct with plates, the diff isnt chnaged in clearance by any more than arms putting the diff in the correct spot for the castor, and with heims, you can still run rubber bushing at the chassis end, solves the 'hard joint' issue.

And you want longer shocks, and big lift, and want new arms to move the diff to correct castor, and you dont want plates because they increase leverage force, yet you wish to go to a fabbed up front arm set up, over a one piece forged steel arm.......

Correct the plates don't reduce the clearance under the diff. By lowering the bushing mount point ~1 1/4" it reduces the clearance under the front of the arm by about the same amount.

I am happy with the lift that I have, not looking to go higher. Not pleased with the yellow Monroe's, moving to better quality shocks and figure that they might as well be longer to take advantage of the extra flex available with the new arms?

I would prefer a one piece forged steel arm, the only ones that I am aware of are Snake Racing's. Their arms are setup for their lift, which I don't have, so if I spend the $$$ to get them here and the angles are wrong for my lift what have I gained? By fabbing a set for my setup the angles are where I want them and gained flex as a bonus.

 

[Tools R Us]

Dusty, the panhard becomes the problem when you look into a "high steer" setup. Marlin's new "6 hole" steering arms are the ticket but the placement of the panhard, if retained, gets fuzzy. I always love this shot of the Aussie arm flip with hi-steer

It looked better before you flipped it!

The panhard needs to move up with the drag link, like it's done in the picture.

 

[Dusty]

Nice pick there Mike. That is what I'm talking about. That looks like some painfully boring fabrication. Perhaps Toorsrus could make a few sets

Dusty

 

[cruiserdan]

The pandard and the relay rod must remain parallel to prevent bump-steer.

 

[kennyv0826]

The stock setup is radius arms.

Yes, good point, but I meant an over/under radius arm like rubicon express uses for the wranglers. Since there are technically 4 arms that can all pivot independently (2 mains and one off each main with bushings) I would get pretty great flex from those when I modded them for my last rig. Plus the ground clearace was awesome.

What is involved in putting the arms on top of the axle like shown above? Do I need to go with hi-steer?

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

Not "looking at it" they are on the truck, wheeled, beat on, proven. For you, being in the offroad fab biz, a 4 link isn't much more work, it probably goes something like this? Guys pull my truck in and link it, let me know when it's done. For me and my daily driver junk, I don't have the luxury of having the truck down to pull the axle, fab brackets, etc. So, yes building arms over a couple of weeks, while driving the truck, then installing them is easier for me. .

Not really, but if your building new arms from measurments, whats the difference? A four link is easily built from templates and measurements, keeping the truck on the road, that way you even get adjustability in your settings.

I would prefer a one piece forged steel arm, the only ones that I am aware of are Snake Racing's. Their arms are setup for their lift, which I don't have, so if I spend the $$$ to get them here and the angles are wrong for my lift what have I gained? By fabbing a set for my setup the angles are where I want them and gained flex as a bonus.

I think you will find Christo has some, or has some not far away, but there are others, to suit any design, any castor angle set up, and any length.

 

[JasonM]

Keep the truck on the road is the goal!! That is why it would be nice to have dimentioned templates from some proven arms like (the slee kit or Tools-r-Us) so that we can take the guess work out and build our own and then throw them in on the week end.

Why not just take advantage of the engineering and testing that has already been done, while saving a little cash and gaining the ability to say "I built It"!

 

[kennyv0826]

Toolsrus arms are custom one of a kind design using a 3 factory bushing set on the axle. He has the build and picture posted - You need to search because Im too lazy to look.



The front corner drops a little more then before. Tracking is much better then before with OME caster correction bushing. If you are looking for a cushy ride, look to valveable shocks because you wont get it with OME shocks.

Yes, yes now I get it! Very cool indeed! We should get a bunch of us together who want those arms and see what kind of deal we could get. I think it would be a good idea to have a treaded collar adjustment toward the frame side of the link though so there is some adjustability for those of us who like to mess with wheelbase and such. It would prolly require the arms be made from thick tube instead of cold rolled steel though?

 

[houlster]

Sorry, it's not an 80 series, but I did swap in it's axle and made my own arms for it:

The frame mount is a large RE bearing. The axle bushings are the common, cheap bushing. I made the mounting ears for the driver's side, rear bushing over-size so I can pull that bolt out and the oversize ears keep the bushings from falling out. It helped so much I don't even bother putting the bolt back in.

This is the difference with/without the rear bushing bolted in on the driver's side:

Overall, I like the arms, but I need to build new ones. The bushings I used aren't the right type. They're too wide for good flex and the shells are way too thin. One of them peeled open like a banana on me.

The new arms will use either 80 series or Rover radius arm bushings. I also cut and re-welded the axle mounts a few times to get caster right so they they look pretty butchered and I want to re-do those as well. I'm also considering a 3-link instead, but I don't really dislike the radius arms. I do get the front corner lifting/diving on hard braking/acceleration that Toys R Us mentioned, but it's not that big a deal when you're expecting it.

Flex with the bolt out of the rear bushing is really pretty decent for radius arms:


--Dan

 

[Darwood]

I would prefer a one piece forged steel arm, the only ones that I am aware of are Snake Racing's. Their arms are setup for their lift, which I don't have, so if I spend the $$$ to get them here and the angles are wrong for my lift what have I gained? By fabbing a set for my setup the angles are where I want them and gained flex as a bonus.

I've emailed back and forth with Snake Racing and they have stated that their arms are cast (they also stated that the stock arms are cast, not forged but I don't believe this). It looks like Slee's will be machined from billet which should be better.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Yes, yes now I get it! Very cool indeed! We should get a bunch of us together who want those arms and see what kind of deal we could get. QUOTE]

I would not hold my breath with the idea of Tools making a run on arms.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Sorry, it's not an 80 series, but I did swap in it's axle and made my own arms for it:

The frame mount is a large RE bearing. The axle bushings are the common, cheap bushing. I made the mounting ears for the driver's side, rear bushing over-size so I can pull that bolt out and the oversize ears keep the bushings from falling out. It helped so much I don't even bother putting the bolt back in.

This is the difference with/without the rear bushing bolted in on the driver's side:

Overall, I like the arms, but I need to build new ones. The bushings I used aren't the right type. They're too wide for good flex and the shells are way too thin. One of them peeled open like a banana on me.

The new arms will use either 80 series or Rover radius arm bushings. I also cut and re-welded the axle mounts a few times to get caster right so they they look pretty butchered and I want to re-do those as well. I'm also considering a 3-link instead, but I don't really dislike the radius arms. I do get the front corner lifting/diving on hard braking/acceleration that Toys R Us mentioned, but it's not that big a deal when you're expecting it.

Flex with the bolt out of the rear bushing is really pretty decent for radius arms:


--Dan

Very nice!
Do you have any pictures of the angle of the panhard at ride height?
Did you use poly bushing for the axle/arms?