Anyone done a mechanical injector pumped 1HD-FTE?

[350cruiser]

I have just got a 1998 1HD-FTE engine and want to fit into a 1995 cruiser that has a tired 1HD-FT engine in it already. my question is has anybody done a mechanical pump swap and whats involved or needed for the swap. have checked and cant find any treads about someone actually doing one so your help will be very much appreciated

 

[Locked79]

For the mechanical pumps swap you will need to swap over the timing gear case from the ft to the fte because the pump has a different bolt pattern. Alternatively you could drill and tap the fte case to fit the pump.

The fte uses higher injection pressures so the ft injectors will also need to be used. Its recommended to get the pump and injectors rebuilt before refitting.

The motor itself will bolt straight in and mate upto the trans

 

[Locked79]

Ps. Not 100%, but rumor has it that the shaft on the fte pump is bigger and the timing gear needs to be machined to suit.

 

[Dragos80]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/forums/diesel-tech-and-24-volts-systems.24/

 

[wedgetail]

Ps. Not 100%, but rumor has it that the shaft on the fte pump is bigger and the timing gear needs to be machined to suit.

Can anyone expand on this? FTE pump has a bigger shaft so it would have to be machined out and a bush pressed in and remachined to suit the smaller ft shaft. Alternatively swap the gear, but then do the rest of the mount gears need changing? Can you use the gear(s) off a 1hz? Part nos are different for all of them but would be interesting to here from anyone that’s done it...

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Bad idea.

The FTE set up will be more powerful and more economical, while you devalue the FTE at the same time by 20%.

 

[mudgudgeon]

For the mechanical pumps swap you will need to swap over the timing gear case from the ft to the fte because the pump has a different bolt pattern. Alternatively you could drill and tap the fte case to fit the pump.

The fte uses higher injection pressures so the ft injectors will also need to be used. Its recommended to get the pump and injectors rebuilt before refitting.

The motor itself will bolt straight in and mate upto the trans

My understanding is the same.

It's been talked about a few times on different forums that I have seen, but don't know of it ever being done.

You'd get a far better result keeping it electronic. I'm pretty sure you'd find there are people in Australia who could supply a harness to make it work for you.

Try searching on lcool.org/forum

 

[wedgetail]

Thanks for the input, and I don understand it may seem a backwards step. I'm actually on lcool - and searching there didn't post up much, I thought it seemed like it was done in the US a bit so I posted here... I'm not set on it - just looking at options. I've spoken to a couple of pump shops, and have heard of it being done a few times. The reason I'm thinking about it is if I wanted to put an FT in a 105 (FTE vs FT debate aside - for another time ) this route has a few advantages: Initial purchase price is much lower, much more common, they're a (potentially) much younger engine, have a (supposedly) stronger valve train less susceptible to dropped valves, better pistons. How much all this is offset by the timing gears and sump I'm still trying to gather. Plus there's the issue of finding a pump, but I have quotes from ADS and dieselcentral to build an FT pump using a 1HZ housing and reset the injectors and it all up (taking an average of import FT prices and import/used aus FTE) the cost is about the same between a converted FTE and FT but you end up with a better result with the former. And getting a pump/injectors built for the FTE getting them tuned/HF'd for say a Gturbo is included - win win win. Also technically an FT needs an engineers report/emissions dyno report for a 105 where as an FTE doesn't - this is what my local inspector says as an HDJ100 and **j105 come under the same ADR approval number and an HDJ80 doesn't. He's confirmed if I come in with a 105 and an FTE (no matter what pump it has) he'd pass it for a blue slip.

I do get the FTE has some major performance advantages though, as autocraft (daz?) puts... not interested in devaluing though. If I did this it would be a car-for-life (like my HZJ105 was meant to be... before I finally admitted it just needs more go). The thing is I would be converting our one car, a daily driver. So down time must be absolute minimum - waiting for thrashlux to splice the looms would be a major issue. He clearly does very good work and it would be the way to go, and probably the cheapest route even but I'd still need to remove the car loom and shut it down for absolute minimum a week, much more likely a few (not knocking him just being realistic, he has a life too). The power loss could easily be made up by intercooler/3" exhaust, turbo upgrade and pump tune (yeah if I did all that to an FTE I could get even more but I reckon I could give tuning an mech pump a go, not so with programming a unichip - added purchase expense anyway).

Then there's the reliability thing - as I said I thing thrashlux's work would be top notch, but it's still introducing a non factory aspect into the car. Reliability is in the back (maybe middle even) of my mind - if a problem came about it could be very difficult to pin point, and if in the middle of the bush with no mobile service and a young family would be stressful. A mechanical system would give me piece of mind, and unless total pump failure (the same chances as with an FTE) happened there is no electronic control to leave you stranded. An OBD port and check engine light would be a must but still I do consider this relevant.

 

[mudgudgeon]

A drive in drive out conversion might be a better option then, but $$$ come into it.

I don't think reliability should be an issue with a 1HD-FTE conversion if you use someone reputable (for harness, or full conversion), it's a well traveled path now.

There's a workshop in Seven Hills (Sydney) whose name comes up regularly for this stuff, might be worth a chat to them. I think they are called Total Care?

 

[wedgetail]

Interesting - I thought all the DIDO shops were in WA... I'll look them up. Would be suprised I could afford DIDO though. My thinking is sell my HZJ105 (GXL advantage, currently 300k, FSH- well almost), buy a manual FZJ105, put a little more in and do the conversion with those funds... Optimistic?

I wonder if I could get a seperate FZJ105 engine loom to splice

 

[mudgudgeon]

Another thought, if your keen on staying mechanical, and contemplating a pump rebuild/rework, it might be worth talking to some diesel pump shops and ask if it is possible to start with the 1HD-FTE pump body, and mix and match to build a 1HD-FT pump, (no idea how many parts are common) and have injectors matched
That way the original timing cover, pump drive gear, shaft etc are out of the picture.
Diesel Central, or United Fuel Injection could be somewhere to start asking questions.

Another thing is spend some time on tiyodiy, or partsouq and compare some part numbers, see what is different from FT to FTE.
Timing case, and cover, pump drive gears, pump shaft etc.
Toyodiy and partsouq have diagrams available, I think partsouq has photos of many parts also.
If you can find a toyota dealer parts rep who can actually find his own backside, you could confirm part numbers for a bit more certainty.

 

[wedgetail]

I haven't spoken to UFI, but diesel central are one of the many (called about 10 so far) pump shops I've spoken to and probably the one I'd pick if I went that route. Really knew what I was on about, reckoned they've done a few before and were $500 less than ADS - well on injectors pump was the same price (who Graeme recommended for it - spoke to him about it too and reckoned it wasn't a bad idea). Everyone says it has to be either an FT pump, or built into one. They say the FTE is completely different internally - I asked about using the shaft from one and apparently out of the question including using the housing. 1HZ housing and shaft size is the same as FT, thats where it ends. I can retap a new pattern on the timing cover - only issue is the gears. ADS thought later 1HZ gears (105/79) would fit - what's the difference between them and earlier ones? At the same time he wasn't 100% on that. Maybe I'd find a sick 1HZ and use the pump housing, gears and sump...

I've already spent a while on japan-parts. It seems 1HD-T and 1HZ share timing gears, nothing else does. But I know part numbers aren't the be all and end all - for example between a prado, 80 series, 79 and 105 (maybe even more) the rear pads use a different number but they are all interchangeable. just because they have different numbers doesn't mean you can't necessarily swap just the IP gear in an FTE. That's why I'd love to talk to someone who's done it!

 

[mudgudgeon]

ToyoDIY.com

I wouldn't take this as conclusive, but a part cross reference of the pump shaft drive gear shows the same part in all hdj80, hzj80, HZJ105, hdj100

 

[wedgetail]

Isn't that the oil pump?

 

[mudgudgeon]

I didn't think so, but maybe.


The engine repair manual shows a difference in idler gear, but not the pump gear

 

[wedgetail]

I didn't think so, but maybe.


The engine repair manual shows a difference in idler gear, but not the pump gear

interesting pic - it does seem to suggest they are the same part. However, looking at numbers on japan-parts gives:
13613-17010 GEAR, INJECTION PUMP DRIVE for a 1HZ in pretty much everything and 1HD-T
13613-17020 GEAR, INJECTION PUMP DRIVE for a 1HD-FT
13613-17030 GEAR, INJECTION PUMP DRIVE for a 1HD-FTE 79s, 78s and 100s

13525-17010 GEAR, IDLE, NO.1 for 1HD-T and 1HZ
13525-17020 GEAR, IDLE, NO.1 for 1HD-FT
13525-17030 GEAR, IDLE, NO.1 for 1HD-FTE

13521-17010 GEAR OR SPROCKET, CRANKSHAFT TIMING 1HD-T and 1HZ
13521-17020 GEAR OR SPROCKET, CRANKSHAFT TIMING 1HD-FT
13521-17030 GEAR OR SPROCKET, CRANKSHAFT TIMING 1HD-FTE

so are the differences major (bearing bore, pitch, diameter, depth etc.) or minor (metalurgy, finish etc.)? Probably more a rhetorical question I guess... So I still think making the FTE gear fit the non E pump could be cheapest.

On the plus side, at least there is a nice order to their final five digits

 

[mudgudgeon]

On the plus side, at least there is a nice order to their final five digits

Yeah, those last 5numbers seem to occur elsewhere. I wondered if they designate 1HD-T, 1HD-FT, 1HD-FTE?

 

[TurboScott]

I have just got a 1998 1HD-FTE engine and want to fit into a 1995 cruiser that has a tired 1HD-FT engine in it already. my question is has anybody done a mechanical pump swap and whats involved or needed for the swap. have checked and cant find any treads about someone actually doing one so your help will be very much appreciated

Whistle and Soot out of australia has a bolt on kit for it. If you are ever interested. The pump can be a vsv controlled dual tune as well!