Any knowledge of or experience with Lennar builders or their subs?

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S.CarolinaFZJ80

S.CarolinaFZJ80

10 Year 15 Year
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Reaching out to see if anyone has any experience with Lennar builders or if any one knows of their subs quality of work in the Lawson community in Waxhaw (south of Charlotte).

After a terrible experience with a track builder and the home appraising for drastically less then contract price just days before closing, I'm on the search again.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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I was involved in the construction industry for 20 some odd years. I held a builder's license in NC up to 08 which allowed me to build up to and including 10 story buildings and worked as a GC, a project manager and superintendent for builders. I do not know the builder you refer but I can tell you this. IN GENERAL the bigger the builder and the bigger the development the lesser the quality and value.

You are far better off doing the ground work yourself, that is find a lot, do the improvement required to build on that lot yourself. Getting water and sewer along with utilities in are generally required these days before you can even start on a foundation. There are a great many lots with those improvements already in left over from the crash in 08. You can save yourself some cash by searching out these lots and negotiating a deal with the current owner of the lot, usually not the owner that put those improvements in.

Big builders generally have just as big overhead with a great many hands in the pot. The goal of most builders that are "getting big" is to sub out everything and do as little work themselves as they can. It is impossible to build high quality at that level without cutting corners. Sub contractors that are being paid a pittance do not have quality on their mind. They are there to pump it out and go to the next house and pump it out, because they too have overhead. Once a builder has a sub contractor "under his thumb" they then leverage the contract to pay the sub less, knowing full well that they need the work just to keep the business going and support all the workers and equipment they have invested in to become big themselves.

Hope this helps
 
My parents can talk for hours about Lenn@r horror stories in Gainesville, VA. Very low opinion of them, myself, from what I've heard and seen. The only good that I see from them is that they were still 'trying' to live up to their 1-yr warranty repair claims 3+ years later. I understand the 'quality of the sub' comments but they are still building this neighborhood 10 years later and having the same types of complaints due to their subs. Most of the houses are $750k - $1m.

Short list of things replaced in a brand new home:
Concrete driveway
Bathroom tile - walls and floor (3 times) - completely replaced repeatedly instead of fixing source foundation issues
Hardwood floor in 60% of main level (some of it twice) - eventually replaced large number of bad floor joists that were causing the problems
 
JohnVee said:
My parents can talk for hours about Lenn@r horror stories in Gainesville, VA. Very low opinion of them, myself, from what I've heard and seen. The only good that I see from them is that they were still 'trying' to live up to their 1-yr warranty repair claims 3+ years later. I understand the 'quality of the sub' comments but they are still building this neighborhood 10 years later and having the same types of complaints due to their subs. Most of the houses are $750k - $1m.

Short list of things replaced in a brand new home:
Concrete driveway
Bathroom tile - walls and floor (3 times) - completely replaced repeatedly instead of fixing source foundation issues
Hardwood floor in 60% of main level (some of it twice) - eventually replaced large number of bad floor joists that were causing the problems
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^^^Exactly why Post-Tension it very popular in new developed areas here. Sorry to hear about your parents problem from a major home builder in a premium market.:(
 
Thanks for your replies. I only came across this Lennar community from a family friends realtor who said it was a nice community with good reviews, amenities, nice landscaping, old growth trees, etc... Before yesterday, I hadn't even heard of it.

I did a google search for the builder and came up with lots of dissatisfied customers in other areas, like CA, NV, GA, VA but couldn't find anything negative about CLT NC specifically.

I understand what you mean about lowest bidder. My builder pretty much half assed everything it it showed at appraisal.

The driveway in the home I was going to close on had a huge crack (not on a stress relief) all the way across 2 weeks after pour. The same with the slab 2 1/2 months after pour. Wood trim was swapped for cheap MDF. No fit or finish. Sloppy cuts, not sanded. Changed the grade of my lot, now front yard holds water in multiple spots. Tiling was crooked and uneven. I've laid tile twice and could have done a better job. Heck, it comes in sheets with the appropriate spacing and their are cheap spacers available to ensure loose tile is spaced correctly.

Anyway, I could go on and on.

@NCFJ - thank for your input. I'd love to do that but with my time constraints and having already sold my house and being stuck in an apartment, I don't think I could do another build at this time. I'd like to eventually do that when I have the time and find the right lot.

@LandCruiserPhil - I had been warned of that before but was sold on the model home and thought my builder had it together on a good build quality.

@JohnVee - I wasn't even close to the cost of build your parents had done in VA but I'll pick your brain this afternoon a bit more on this.
 
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S.CarolinaFZJ80 said:
@NCFJ - thank for your input. I'd love to do that but with my time constraints and having already sold my house and being stuck in an apartment, I don't think I could do another build.
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I understand your position but view it from a totally different outlook. If in your shoes I would be looking to rent a house for a bit and MAKE time to deal with it. Your other option is to look for an older established home that will require work to get it where you want. There are a great many older homes out there that can be purchased for a fair price and remodeled into a more modern home.

Older homes have some distinct advantages going for them. Foundations have settled and any issues with foundations are generally self evident. The wood used in older homes was generally more stable. Wood used today is for the most part quick grown and even the kiln dried stuff is unstable to a degree. Go to any lumber yard with a tape measure and start measuring the height dimension of any dimensional lumber (2x4,2x6,2x8, 2x10 etc) I have literally had to find the smallest dimension and rip the rest of the floor joists to that size just to start with a somewhat level surface. Even if you gut back to studs and sub floor or joists you are still starting with a stable base, not so with new lumber.

If you do go with new construction you will be faced with issues like cracked tile, separating wood flooring, and cracked drywall. Even the simplest of old school rules are no longer practiced such as never put a vertical seam in drywall at the edge of a door or window. Hell go around to a new development and check the joist and stud layouts. Rare is it when you find 1st flr joist/ first flr stud/ 2nd flr joist/ 2nd flr stud/ceiling joist/rafter or trusses to line up. Ask any HVAC man, they'll tell you.

Ask questions like what kind of tile backer are they using, more often than not you will find they are applying wall tile to drywall and flooring tile to sub floor. A guarantee that tile will crack and break loose. No vapor barrier under concrete, no under lament or even builder's paper under wood flooring. Face it, this is America and the name of the game is GREED.

If you are not willing to supervise every step of the construction process or hire an independent to do it for you, you get what you get. Prepare for years of going back and forth with builders just as John Vs parents have. Most just give up and live with it, just like the builders hope you will.
 
Builders are not required to list any of their sub contractors. Different regulations require builders to have insurance information on file provided by their subs but that is about it. Builders go through sub contractors at a pretty high clip, always looking for a cheaper price. The best way to find out who the subs are is visit the building site and talk to them directly.
 
S.CarolinaFZJ80 said:
Do any of you guys know where on the net I can find out who the big builders local subs are?
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They frequently change for most track builders phases. In our market a LOT of the track work is Piecework so the name of sub is pretty much worthless. Again a sub is only as good as its worst employee:rolleyes:

Sorry if I make it sound like a crap shoot:eek:
 
Josh jones from the club is a reputable general contractor here in charlotte area. I think he works around your area too. Talk to him and see if he can at least guide you. I heard he does a very good job.
 
Roxx said:
Josh jones from the club is a reputable general contractor here in charlotte area. I think he works around your area too. Talk to him and see if he can at least guide you. I heard he does a very good job.
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To make it easy to find him, Josh's handle on mud is 77cruiser.
 
10yrs ago we looked at track built homes, like Lennar, in the Charleston SC market. We went with Brentwood - another track builder, but working on a smaller scale. I worked out OK - but I can tell this house WILL NOT last a lifetime. They DO NOT build them like they used to. As a matter of fact, one of my neighbors is a licensed GC; the track builder brought them in from Texas to do QC and guarantee work.. until the bottom fell out. He does lots of private small jobs now - bathrooms, porches, kitchens - using some of the same subs that worked for the track builder. Most of his work comes 'word of mouth'.

In SC, you can go to the SC Labor License and Regulation site - and search for LICENSED General Contractors, specialty (electrical, plumbing, framing, etc.....). You can find individuals and large GCs. You can try Lowes or Home Depot - ask at the Pro Desk, check Craig's List (use caution & get references), and drive around through some of the areas that you might want to live in and stop on a job site to look at the quality in the field. Some small private GCs will build a nice custom house, and have a 'spec house' or two that they are working on at the same time.

All of the above posts are very true, and @NCFJ is spot on: rent something for now, find a lot, hire an independent GC to build what you want. The market should still be saturated, even in Charlotte, with existing new homes that you could negotiate to rent in lieu of buying - at least the owner has someone making the mortgage payment.

If you're just looking for a house - don't worry, find something that fits, clean it up, paint it and flip it. If you're looking for a home - LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION (not to mention foundations, framing, lot size, and mature trees...).

Best of luck - and make sure that you have room for your Cruiser !
 
I sell Lighting Fixtures to a lot of builders from custom to track. I do not do business with them, but have talked with them about it. Like it was said above track building is a numbers game for everybody involved. From my experience if you get a good super they make sure that corners are not cut and things are done properly. I would recommend you go to as many of there communities as you can. Look at houses that are being built, go in them and look around. You can figure out who the subs are that way also. With any builder subs are key, but is also the products that are in the house. You get what you pay for. They came out with the "everything is included" program a few years ago. One of the reason was to cut cost because they are buying so much of one thing, but it also streamlined the process for them. If my memory is correct I don't think they give you a lot of options at all, not even sure if they have a Design Center or how there process works. I know a couple of the guys in the purchasing department for them. I think they build 800-1000 homes a year so they should have plenty of houses under construction you could look at, and take somebody who knows more about it then you. I would highly recommend you get a really good home inspector if you do not know much about the process. They can be a pain to deal with as a sub, but the good ones do pick up a lot of stuff.
 
Another thing to consider.... Builders will often state "it's up to code". Well yeah, it would not pass inspection otherwise. The fact is "CODE" is building parlance for bare minimum that is acceptable in both state and federal rules.
 
There was indeed a design center when my folks bought (2 years into the n'hood build). Not sure if they've kept it or when it might have gone away, if it did. They went with the basic of everything. Most of their friends didn't and have had the same problems - it seems fixtures, lighting, etc only got shinier as the price went up - at the same levels of usage. They knew I'd be replacing most of their stuff eventually as they got decorating ideas but the wow... i.e., a large double kitchen sink with a faucet like your grandparents had (H&C knobs, spout with a 2" rise, etc), $75 range hood, non matching brands of sink and toilet in the same bathroom (so 2 shades of white). Point being the "contractor pack" was whatever they had when it was needed.
 
Sam,
I would be happy to talk with you this week over the phone about it. my cell is 7049049927

I hear the comments everyone is making and I would like to maybe make a few points I think worth considering:
  1. I agree with Justus in regards to the Super who runs the community. You could probably ask to meet the super or his project manager during your sales process and just see what kind of feel you get from him. Your relationship with your super can make or break your experience and if you have a good one, it in turn puts more of a personal connection in the efforts during construction most likely. This is something I rarely had asked of me when I was a Super for a Production builder but now that I am on the Custom side of building and i do interview for some of my bigger projects, i see great value in it for both sides.
  2. Pricing and quality... Keep in mind that everyone has a price point they can afford and everyones are different. Its not builders "cutting corners" but rather its building a product for someone to afford in their budget. Just like cars, a BMW quality in most cases far exceeds the quality of a Kia right? So one costs more than another.
  3. Subs of builders...on a permit you can see who the hvac, elect, and plumbing contractors are but that doesn't really matter because you are not going to get to choose the option of using someone else you think is better. Nor would you get it for the price they have agreed to with the builder using someone else.
  4. I think when you build a production home its important to realize its not a custom home. You are going to have less otions, their options are going to cost a little more in some cases than if you did it on your own after you closed but its still a quality home. If a builder builds 1000 homes a year and 50 people are not thrilled that means that 5% of their customers are not happy but 95% are happy. In customer service i don't know anyone who wouldn't take those stats.
  5. "Homes just aren't build the way they used to be". This comment to me is so invalid and for some reason people still like to use it. I renovated old houses all the time, loads aren't supported, floors sagging, joists overspanned, no insulation in walls, i could go on for days. For the most part house are build better, but what materials are used will dictate the price. that's never changed. Now homes are just built as a process more than one by one.
  6. Bottom line is i think that there are good homes built by production builders. I built them for 7 years. Not everyones house is perfect and not everyones experience is perfect. That's life. Sometimes its the builders/subs fault and sometimes a homeowner can have false expectations of what they are buying. And sometimes it just doesn't go smoothly and theres no real reason why. It just does. That's where having a good relationship with your super comes in. You share the same goal and he does all he can to resolve situations that come up.
 
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