I do.
I think the bracket itself, overall, was too weak.
However, I think it also exposed a bigger issue in the design.
As stated earlier, a thin bracket can survive as a wrap bar if there is no side load.
Anti-Wrap Q's
- Thread starter 74fj40ca
- Start date
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I do.
I think the bracket itself, overall, was too weak.
However, I think it also exposed a bigger issue in the design.
As stated earlier, a thin bracket can survive as a wrap bar if there is no side load.
- Thread starter
- #83
I think my bracket failed for a few reasons.
1 - The jam nut came lose on the heim, which allowed it to move to the left
2 - the bracket has weak points in it, from too much being cut out (like chicago mentioned)
3 - the heims in the rear of the bar, as opposed to the bushing setup
4 - when the heim at the front moved to the left, it didn't allow anymore movement, thus bending the bracket to compensate for it.
I plan on going with the kit from Dan over at RuffStuff. I've seen this kit in person, and it gets the job done.
1 - The jam nut came lose on the heim, which allowed it to move to the left
2 - the bracket has weak points in it, from too much being cut out (like chicago mentioned)
3 - the heims in the rear of the bar, as opposed to the bushing setup
4 - when the heim at the front moved to the left, it didn't allow anymore movement, thus bending the bracket to compensate for it.
I plan on going with the kit from Dan over at RuffStuff. I've seen this kit in person, and it gets the job done.
Can't wait to see what you come up with.
I will chime in on this debate. This was my fault. You didnt know how they were designed since I never told you. I gave just the brackets away with a few other pieces in a giveaway. I never sent a complete kit with instructions. The brackets are not setup how they were designed to run. Those brackets have been run on rigs much larger and abused with no issues.
The brackets will not be sold by themselves anymore. I will box them in and weld them myself. I will make sure the right and left brackets are in correct orientation, the width is correct to work with the bushings that will be provided, and I will supply good directions even on giveaway items. Learning lesson on my part. I will send you another set if you would like welded up.
They were designed to have bushings on the axle side. The bushing we run are a total of 2.5" wide. This gives a wider mounting point off the axle. We then box the back side of the brackets. They will side load if enough force is applied because thats the natural weak spot "like when it binds". Every structure will have a weak spot when enough force is applied. The box in plate makes all the difference in the world as far as strength. When we set these up the bar will match the angle of the driveline, and run the shackles on the top side. The shackles should be slightly angled to the rear on the top side. Thats the natural path when the pinion rotates and the spring is compressed. They only need like 5-10*. This allows a smoother transition. I take the length of the spring from eye to center pin and make my wrap bars match that length.
I hope this helps. If you want to pick my brain, or if anything is unclear please ask.
The brackets will not be sold by themselves anymore. I will box them in and weld them myself. I will make sure the right and left brackets are in correct orientation, the width is correct to work with the bushings that will be provided, and I will supply good directions even on giveaway items. Learning lesson on my part. I will send you another set if you would like welded up.
They were designed to have bushings on the axle side. The bushing we run are a total of 2.5" wide. This gives a wider mounting point off the axle. We then box the back side of the brackets. They will side load if enough force is applied because thats the natural weak spot "like when it binds". Every structure will have a weak spot when enough force is applied. The box in plate makes all the difference in the world as far as strength. When we set these up the bar will match the angle of the driveline, and run the shackles on the top side. The shackles should be slightly angled to the rear on the top side. Thats the natural path when the pinion rotates and the spring is compressed. They only need like 5-10*. This allows a smoother transition. I take the length of the spring from eye to center pin and make my wrap bars match that length.
I hope this helps. If you want to pick my brain, or if anything is unclear please ask.
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- Thread starter
- #87
Thanks for chiming in, and I really like the RT gear (I won the brackets and basic SOA kit from you on Pirate, and I'm still waiting for you to release your front bumper), I use the SOA kit in the rear, and it does work.
I'm interested to see how the new design works, I know my setup had flaws, like I mentioned above. I'm at a point now where I haven't pulled the bar off yet, and I'm still weighing my options as to what to do next.
I'm interested to see how the new design works, I know my setup had flaws, like I mentioned above. I'm at a point now where I haven't pulled the bar off yet, and I'm still weighing my options as to what to do next.
That's why the thin metal of the original Toyota panhard bracket works. It's one piece, bent into a u-shape, then a plate is welded across the front to fully box it in.
- Thread starter
- #89
So I'm back at this, and am gathering parts for a new anti-wrap bar.
I'm at the point where I am trying to decide between a heim joint, or a johnny joint.
Looking at the Johnny Joint, I think it would be a better joint, since it generally offers more movement, than a heim joint.
What is the general consensuses on the two joints?
I'm at the point where I am trying to decide between a heim joint, or a johnny joint.
Looking at the Johnny Joint, I think it would be a better joint, since it generally offers more movement, than a heim joint.
What is the general consensuses on the two joints?
The only difference I can think of between using a Johnny and a heim in this application is that you can fine-tune the wrap bar's length with how far you've threaded in the heim, whereas a johnny is welded in place. I picked up a heim for mine.
Take my comments with a grain of salt as I have yet to build a wrap bar.
Take my comments with a grain of salt as I have yet to build a wrap bar.
- Thread starter
- #93
They have a few different styles of Johnny Joints. The one I am looking at is threaded, just like a heim joint.
So I think it comes down to range of motion, a JJ has 30* of rotation, as where a Heim has 22* -- Cost is about the same.
So I think it comes down to range of motion, a JJ has 30* of rotation, as where a Heim has 22* -- Cost is about the same.
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
So, to further add to the debate, what about using a scissor type shackle configuration at the heim joint (forward) end?
I am toying with the idea now. I would come up at a 45*-ish angle from an eye bushing welded on the skid plate then pivot back down at a yet to be determined angle to the anti-wrap bar. It would essentially be an inverted "V" with a pivot at two points. Well, 3 points including the heim on the traction bar.
My initial thought was that two pivots would allow the bar to better follow the arc of the spring and shackle as it cycles. However, it also seems that there must be more attention paid to the angles because this setup my not actually stop axle wrap at all.
Any thoughts on this? Am I just Rube Goldberging?
I am toying with the idea now. I would come up at a 45*-ish angle from an eye bushing welded on the skid plate then pivot back down at a yet to be determined angle to the anti-wrap bar. It would essentially be an inverted "V" with a pivot at two points. Well, 3 points including the heim on the traction bar.
My initial thought was that two pivots would allow the bar to better follow the arc of the spring and shackle as it cycles. However, it also seems that there must be more attention paid to the angles because this setup my not actually stop axle wrap at all.
Any thoughts on this? Am I just Rube Goldberging?
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That could cause some REALLY weird aspects. You would have to run it shackle down (for obvious reasons) which would be better as well. There would be less tendency for the bar to jack the rear end of the truck up on acceleration.
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
Yeah, I am most likely over complicating the issue by creating too much freedom in the movement of the shackle. And it would not actually stop the pinion from rotating up at all.
I just can't find anything where someone tried it. And that could be because it is so obviously pointless, but I am too ignorant to see the obvious flaw in my idea.
People have some interesting ideas on traction aids. Most of them don't work, but perhaps this is the one that does!
Best way to find out if you are not an awesome computer modeler, is to build it and see. Just be careful or you'll be needing another pinion
Best way to find out if you are not an awesome computer modeler, is to build it and see. Just be careful or you'll be needing another pinion
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
It is simple enough to make and after some -hopefully- nondestructive testing, I'll be able to prove or disprove the idea.
If it doesn't work, it is easy enough to just swap it back to a single shackle design.
If it doesn't work, it is easy enough to just swap it back to a single shackle design.
- Thread starter
- #99
I got my first set of parts to make a replacement anti-wrap bar.
1 1/4" Currie JohnnyJoint. 2 5/8" total width.
Up next will be some DOM tubing, going with 2" x .25 wall for the tip bar.
Lower bar will be DOM 1.75" x .125 wall.
Just need to decide to either go with the Ruff Stuff partial kit, or try another Rock Tactics kit.
1 1/4" Currie JohnnyJoint. 2 5/8" total width.
Up next will be some DOM tubing, going with 2" x .25 wall for the tip bar.
Lower bar will be DOM 1.75" x .125 wall.
Just need to decide to either go with the Ruff Stuff partial kit, or try another Rock Tactics kit.
