Another one bites the dust.

[MEMCruiser]

Went wheeling this weekend with the cotton land cruisers and blew my front diff.
I was going almost perpendicular to some ruts with front wheel in rut and rear wheel in very soft dirt and a steep incline. Got a little aggressive to try and get unstuck and heard a . Knew right away what it was. Kept telling the 80 guys I was running with, " I blew the front diff" They thought it might be rocks hitting underside. I tried a little more to no avail since I was now in a two wheel drive with a rear locker only.

We tried for an hour to get the thing winched out to no avail. We then went and got the help of experts. Daryl helped me out with his awesome machine and many other people helped get the thing back to Super Lift's Pavilion so we could work on it. After most, if not all, work was done by others I got the thing home to Memphis TN. (By the way the diff fluid looked like gray paint and there were tons of big shavings on the plug)

I have read hundreds of threads on this situation and was planning on changing the diff out to a four pinion with a locker in the next 16 to 24 months. Now I have to make a decision on which way to go. So I have many questions.

1. Should I sell it and get an 80? There were tons of 80s there with no problems.

2. If I keep the 100 how do I go about fixing it?

3. Should I re-gear it and what are the pros and cons?

4. Can a 4 pinion insides fit in the case of a previous 2 pinion diff?

5. Can this repair be done by someone with really no mechanical expertise but the help of mud?

6. Could this have been avoided with better driving technique?

I have done searches but would like some fresh opinions.

On a somewhat side note, If there are any lurkers out there that are hesitant or intimidated to attend any TLCA event or any other trail ride posted on MUD, get over it and go have fun. As a newbie I was amazed at everybody's willingness to help, friendliness and ability to peg the fun meter. The Cotton Land Cruisers were great and I bet most chapters are the same. So next time there is an event you can go to, GO!

 

[e9999]

ARB ?


it's not that trivial to set up gears for a diff. Somebody with no expertise I suppose could do it with plenty of reading and some assistance, but I'd be careful.

Well, you'll be almost 1/2 way to a gear change $ fixing things, so worth considering if you plan on big tires later on or want more oomph. But then again, how big tires can you readily put on the 100. and the engine is already great. Would not be a top priority for me. Maybe with very heavy trailers to tow.

OTOH, having a front locker would be a very good thing IMHO.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

You'll need to open it up to see what the damage is before moving forward. If you just took out the pinions, then you just need a locker. If you took out the ring, then you've got some decisions to make about regearing.

 

[deerhunter1557]

I would never go from a 100 to an 80.

 

[pint]

The 100 does great off road, but the front diff can be a weakness in the early models. Do you have a rear locker? I would say throw in a front ARB and gears if needed and keep on trucking! These rigs are very capable. Look at some of the threads on Moab, the 100 Series pics thread, etc. If you build it right for what you plan to do with it, you will be happy IMO...Sorry about the damage though.

 

[pint]

I would never go from a 100 to an 80.

This is risky in the 100 forum, but why not? I think it depends on what the intended use of the truck is. JMHO...

 

[deerhunter1557]

This is risky in the 100 forum, but why not? I think it depends on what the intended use of the truck is. JMHO...

I drive 95% on the highway so I could not live without the comfortable ride, and the luxury of the 100.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Let's not turn this into yet ANOTHER 80 vs. 100 thread.

 

[MEMCruiser]

Sorry, Did not want to start a 100 vs 80 discussion. Let me better explain what I will be doing with my cruiser.

I am not a big mudder but since I live in the south, when I get off road that seems to be what I do. I was really wanting to set it up for overland exploring and camping. That seems to be a western part of the country activity. I am hoping to take it out west at least once maybe twice a year. I mostly have been exploring national forrests (ouchita and ozark) with the occasional trip to superlift in hot springs arkansas.

The car did have a factory rear and center locker but no front locker. I am going to add a locker when I put it back together. Might be a few months to let me save the money for everything. Until then I will be two wheeling it.

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

diff

Well since its broken it's gotta come out. So you may as well pull it out and see what you need

4.88 & Air locker would be best, but if your stock gears are good and you want to reuse them, I'd still do the ARB. If its just the spider gears and you do not intend to install locker or different gear ratio, a good used set of spider gears would be the cheapest route (not best). It really depends on what your budget is vs. what your needs and uses are.

Went wheeling this weekend with the cotton land cruisers and blew my front diff.
I was going almost perpendicular to some ruts with front wheel in rut and rear wheel in very soft dirt and a steep incline. Got a little aggressive to try and get unstuck and heard a . Knew right away what it was. Kept telling the 80 guys I was running with, " I blew the front diff" They thought it might be rocks hitting underside. I tried a little more to no avail since I was now in a two wheel drive with a rear locker only.

We tried for an hour to get the thing winched out to no avail. We then went and got the help of experts. Daryl helped me out with his awesome machine and many other people helped get the thing back to Super Lift's Pavilion so we could work on it. After most, if not all, work was done by others I got the thing home to Memphis TN. (By the way the diff fluid looked like gray paint and there were tons of big shavings on the plug)

I have read hundreds of threads on this situation and was planning on changing the diff out to a four pinion with a locker in the next 16 to 24 months. Now I have to make a decision on which way to go. So I have many questions.

1. Should I sell it and get an 80? There were tons of 80s there with no problems.

2. If I keep the 100 how do I go about fixing it?

3. Should I re-gear it and what are the pros and cons?

4. Can a 4 pinion insides fit in the case of a previous 2 pinion diff?

5. Can this repair be done by someone with really no mechanical expertise but the help of mud?

6. Could this have been avoided with better driving technique?

I have done searches but would like some fresh opinions.

On a somewhat side note, If there are any lurkers out there that are hesitant or intimidated to attend any TLCA event or any other trail ride posted on MUD, get over it and go have fun. As a newbie I was amazed at everybody's willingness to help, friendliness and ability to peg the fun meter. The Cotton Land Cruisers were great and I bet most chapters are the same. So next time there is an event you can go to, GO!

 

[MEMCruiser]

I have the money to do it right. Not just right now. Trying to get house ready to sell, so I have many projects going right now. I want to fix this to minimize my chances of it ever happening again. I was planning on putting a locker on the front diff in the next year. I guess I will change it to a four pinion diff. What are my choices on a diff. Is there one better than the OEM? Can I pull the front diff out and send it somewhere to be rebuilt? Can I drive the car with front diff out? (I think I can) I am a newbie to this stuff so I hope my questions are not too stupid.

As far as re-gearing. What are my choices and how do I go about doing it? I have stock tires for now. Would like to get some bigger but not too big. Any suggestions. I am wanting to do more overland exploring than rock crawling. I still want to have a capable car. It is also going to be my daily driver for awhile.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[wildsmith]

When I blew my front diff I took it out and drove around for a month or so like that while I waited for parts. I just plugged the holes in the back of the hubs where the driveshaft would go through to keep dirt out. I put an ARB in when I rebuilt it and it was definately worth it plus it replaces the OEM carrier so no need for you to worry about 2 pinion vs 4 it's a none issue with the ARB.

 

[Campfire]

Sorry to hear about the diff, but welcome to the club.
After I replaced the 2 pinion with a four, I've never had a problem. (knocking on wood)

 

[2000UZJ]

I would like 4.88's and lockers. But atrac works fine for me untill I get out west and out of school. I was 2wd for a few weeks untill I cracked mine and saw I was fine. Had lots of shavings and junk, but all the gears were fine and no chips. 2wd sure does feel different. Little faster off the line too !

Your options are stock ( 4.3), 4.88, and 5.29 but would only do 4.88's. If I had 35's and towed all the time maybe 5.29's but then again I don't have 35's and don't tow. So my little 4.3's will fly for now.

If I was you, throw 4.88 in and arb the front. bullet proof. I'll stop typing now

 

[ginericLC]

I think people are foolish if they think the 4 pinion diff is going to solve their problems. It might be a temporary fix but if you keep using it off road it will break. I also have a theory about the ATRAC making it worse. When your ATRAC is working it is using the brakes to rapidly shift power back and forth between the axles. That constant shift in power causes the diff to flex (even though it is a 4 pinion w/ ATRAC). When the carrier flexes enough it allows the ring and pinion to slip and when it slips and catches is when stuff breaks. That is true for non-ATRAC rigs too. It isn't the lack of traction that breaks things it is adding traction to something spinning rapidly. Put an ARB in and be done with it. If you didn't move much with the pinion bound up your gears might be OK. Grey diff fluid indicates wear. When it breaks it breaks in chunks, the fine stuff is wear.

 

[spressomon]

I think people are foolish if they think the 4 pinion diff is going to solve their problems. It might be a temporary fix but if you keep using it off road it will break. I also have a theory about the ATRAC making it worse. When your ATRAC is working it is using the brakes to rapidly shift power back and forth between the axles. That constant shift in power causes the diff to flex (even though it is a 4 pinion w/ ATRAC). When the carrier flexes enough it allows the ring and pinion to slip and when it slips and catches is when stuff breaks. That is true for non-ATRAC rigs too. It isn't the lack of traction that breaks things it is adding traction to something spinning rapidly. Put an ARB in and be done with it. If you didn't move much with the pinion bound up your gears might be OK. Grey diff fluid indicates wear. When it breaks it breaks in chunks, the fine stuff is wear.

X2! The Denver area saw a # of failed 4-pinion front diffs presumably due to shock load as you described Eric, during the big snow/ice storm a couple winters ago: Christo's notwithstanding!

 

[2000UZJ]

im in the same boat at Eric, ive kinda payed attention to how atrac works. it lets the wheels spin then jabs the brakes on suddenly and lets off again. makes a ton of noise and shakes to whole truck. sooner or later, atrac will do more harm then good.

as for the 4 pinion diff, yes, may be stronger. if you wheel hard enough and get the 100 in a spot that pushes the limit of the diff strength, neither 2 or 4 pin will withstand the pressure. espicially if atrac is jerkin' and bouncin' away.

ive tried to think of a way that would create a mechanical locker action from the traction control, but wouldnt be possible. even the rear locker on the 2000+ (claimed to be a electric rear locker, goes on when wheel slip is detected, im almost positive its just the brakes) isnt that impressive. yes, its gotten me up alot of stuff, off camber and such. but its still slow and jerky. i wish i would lock itself (or simulate) and climb untill you let off the gas again. be much more effective and safe. same for the front.

 

[MEMCruiser]

I think people are foolish if they think the 4 pinion diff is going to solve their problems. It might be a temporary fix but if you keep using it off road it will break. I also have a theory about the ATRAC making it worse. When your ATRAC is working it is using the brakes to rapidly shift power back and forth between the axles. That constant shift in power causes the diff to flex (even though it is a 4 pinion w/ ATRAC). When the carrier flexes enough it allows the ring and pinion to slip and when it slips and catches is when stuff breaks. That is true for non-ATRAC rigs too. It isn't the lack of traction that breaks things it is adding traction to something spinning rapidly. Put an ARB in and be done with it. If you didn't move much with the pinion bound up your gears might be OK. Grey diff fluid indicates wear. When it breaks it breaks in chunks, the fine stuff is wear.

Ok. So what I am hearing is get a new diff and put an ARB locker in it. Still not bullet proof but way better than what I had.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Ok. So what I am hearing is get a new diff and put an ARB locker in it. Still not bullet proof but way better than what I had.

That's what I would do. You already own the 100 and it mostly suits your needs. Sure, an 80 would be a better wheeler but not as good a fit for you. All you need is an airlocker and ring/pinion set.

I would not waste time on the 4 pinion front diff, I know someone who blew up 2 of these (so that's 3 total) before he put in an ARB. You can bet his wife was PISSED.

Regarding wheeling in the West-a 100 is fine for most of it, especially the desert areas and Utah. If you want to get a little more technical there is an argument to be made that the 80 would be a better choice, but likely not worth it for that 2% of your travels.

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

broken what?

Well the 2pinion vs 4 pinion debate is irrelevant if he broke his ring & pinion as 4 pinion's only benifet is stronger spider gears. Plenty of people have broken their ring & pinions as well. The ARB has stronger spider gears as well as will help support the ring & pinion. Also the factory diffs often come setup with insufficient carrier bearing preload, which allows for excessive deflection under load, which then leads to broken R&P.

So it is possible you could do a decent upgrade with an ARB and run your stock R&P, IF they aren't broken. Best thing to do is get it apart and find out what broke.

Ok. So what I am hearing is get a new diff and put an ARB locker in it. Still not bullet proof but way better than what I had.