Builds Another OM617 in an FJ40 thread (2 Viewers)

[DPV7070]

Sheesh-looks like it has been almost two years since I posted an update in the diesel forum. Still super-reliable and comparatively efficient. I recently took it to Moab and the one issue was that it runs too warm under extreme conditions (100+ degrees, long grades) Temps got up to 220 or so. In my conversion I used a budget three-core aluminum radiator. Should have forked over the extra $ for a five-core. If anyone else is considering an OM617 swap, I recommend not skimping on the cooling system.

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@daner thanks for the update and I love the new color. With respect to the increased water temps, did you keep the OEM oil cooler? I went with a smaller 3 row Mishimoto for my oil cooler and I've seen 220F a time or two thanks to my warning light. I know these engines are notorious for building heat and storing it in the cast iron (think driving on the autobahn and then pulling off and sitting at a stop light). This is why Mercedes installed the oil squirters on the piston skirts (I think) along with the large oil cooler. Might be something to look into to keep the temps down a little. Also, less lugging, as I'm sure you know, will help keep the cylinder head temps down.

I need to look into the Doomsday diesel ALDA delete. My engine is bone stock, only thing I've done is adjust valves.

 

[daner]

In retrospect, if you had the choice do you think you'd install a 3b rather than an om617? Seems like it makes less power ,overheats and gets less fuel economy. I know a lot of guys on here think the antiquated 3b is not worth swapping but interested to get your take on it. I know that turbo 3b's make waaaay more power than om617's at least that's how it seems to me personally. I have driven both and the Mercedes struggled where the toyota engine felt quite reasonable. Wondering if that's what your comparative equation is pointing to? Or were you comparing the OM617 to the F engine that originally came in the truck?

Good question. Imho neither are perfect solutions. The performance stock on paper is very comparable. In my case, budget was a very real thing. I got the truck, motor, adaptor, transmission, transfer case and new wheels/tires for about what an H55 costs. I also considered parts availability in the states: I can walk into a parts store in Moab, Battle Mountain or wherever and walk out with an alternator or water pump. Can’t do that with a 3B.
If I were looking at it as an investment, keeping it Toyota would probably be a better call.

As for the overheating, it got up to 225, but in fairness it was 107 outside and I was climbing a 12 mile long steep grade that gained about 5000 feet in elevation. As soon as I backed off the throttle, it stayed around 212. Still, not acceptable, looking at solutions.

 

[daner]

Was the OM617 you drove a stock engine? They can make quite good power much more reliably than a turbo 3B if they’re set up right. Mine had a Holset HX30 running 18psi, 7.5mm injector pump elements and 0.314 injector nozzles and made approximately 160hp. It did great moving a 5100lb G-Wagen on 37’s.

My OM617 is stock except the Alda delete. I wonder if I did upgrade the turbo and injector pump, wouldn’t that increase the temps?

 

[Dougal]

In retrospect, if you had the choice do you think you'd install a 3b rather than an om617? Seems like it makes less power ,overheats and gets less fuel economy. I know a lot of guys on here think the antiquated 3b is not worth swapping but interested to get your take on it. I know that turbo 3b's make waaaay more power than om617's at least that's how it seems to me personally. I have driven both and the Mercedes struggled where the toyota engine felt quite reasonable. Wondering if that's what your comparative equation is pointing to? Or were you comparing the OM617 to the F engine that originally came in the truck?

3B power seems to be highly exaggerated. I've done a turbo sizing calcs for both the 3B and the OM617.
Stock the 3B 66kw (90hp) and 200Nm. With 10psi boost (on a safe tune ) you'll get to around 85kw and 280Nm. About 30% more than stock.
With 16psi intercooled (IMO too much for the engine longer term) you'll ~350Nm and 110kw. About 80% more than stock.

Pretty sure you'll struggle to keep the 3B cool with higher power and I'm concerned about both crank and head strength. Pistons could also be a problem.
I think the 10psi limit is the right thing for a 3B. It gives you a power and torque boost, altitude compensation but isn't going to break or cook anything.

The OM617 is built as a turbo motor but it's not very efficient.
Stock OM617 and 10psi 3B are pretty even. 3B has more torque, OM617 has a bit more power.
Limit of a tweaked up OM617 (TD04HL-19T turbo, 18psi, intercooled) is 300Nm and 110kw. This is fuel limited.

With a better turbo and intercooler it will run cooler and more efficient than stock.

 

[daner]

With a better turbo and intercooler it will run cooler and more efficient than stock.

Wish I had room for an intercooler because cooler temps + more power sound great!

 

[daner]

Out of curiosity, how big would an intercooler would it take for a bigger turbo?

 

[Dougal]

Out of curiosity, how big would an intercooler would it take for a bigger turbo?

The intercooler needs to be big enough in cross section to not be a significant flow restriction. Past that bigger gives you better cooling.

You could run an air-water setup. Clock the turbo outlet around (or new turbo) so you can split the piping off into an air-water then back into the intake. You need an oil-cooler type radiator in front which is pretty thin, a circulator pump and a header tank.

 

[DPV7070]

I see the OEM oil cooler now...disregard my question.

 

[JDRanger04]

Was the OM617 you drove a stock engine? They can make quite good power much more reliably than a turbo 3B if they’re set up right. Mine had a Holset HX30 running 18psi, 7.5mm injector pump elements and 0.314 injector nozzles and made approximately 160hp. It did great moving a 5100lb G-Wagen on 37’s.

How much horsepower will this actually push? I've started on an om617 swap into a ford ranger and realized that this isnt gonna be enough power for me. Id like to put a biggeer turbo and bigger injectors, just not sure which ones to do that dont cost an arm and a leg. Ive realized that these arent the best options for Rangers and if I wanted more power, I should've gone with a newer or better engine.

 

[Dougal]

How much horsepower will this actually push? I've started on an om617 swap into a ford ranger and realized that this isnt gonna be enough power for me. Id like to put a biggeer turbo and bigger injectors, just not sure which ones to do that dont cost an arm and a leg. Ive realized that these arent the best options for Rangers and if I wanted more power, I should've gone with a newer or better engine.

Bigger turbo and injectors will only help when you've got a bigger injection pump. Stock doesn't have much head-room: OM617 Performance Review - https://www.4btswaps.com/threads/om617-performance-review.74457/

 

[JDRanger04]

Bigger turbo and injectors will only help when you've got a bigger injection pump. Stock doesn't have much head-room: OM617 Performance Review - https://www.4btswaps.com/threads/om617-performance-review.74457/

I should've recognized that username. I was just over on that forum reading that post. Really helpful info. What Im wondering is what injection pump should I go for? The M pumps are fairly pricey, but that may be my best bet. The more I look at adding power, the more I see that may have to happen on down the road after its built.

 

[AirheadNut]

How much horsepower will this actually push? I've started on an om617 swap into a ford ranger and realized that this isnt gonna be enough power for me. Id like to put a biggeer turbo and bigger injectors, just not sure which ones to do that dont cost an arm and a leg. Ive realized that these arent the best options for Rangers and if I wanted more power, I should've gone with a newer or better engine.

@Dougal is right, you need to upgrade the injection pump to get a significant power bump out of an OM617. My G-wagen had 7.5mm pump elements instead of the original 6.5mm, I don't know how much power it made but it was probably around 160-170hp. Injector nozzles are pretty straightforward to replace in a DIY setting with a pop tester, I have done it a couple of times with good results. I am no turbo expert, but would guess that a more modern turbo than an HX30 would work quite nicely, especially if you could get a VNT style turbo hooked up.

What kind of power output are you looking for? Quite a few people have swapped a 1.9L or 2.0L VW TDI into a Ford Ranger. These engines can make excellent power and retain good efficiency if done right.

 

[JDRanger04]

@Dougal is right, you need to upgrade the injection pump to get a significant power bump out of an OM617. My G-wagen had 7.5mm pump elements instead of the original 6.5mm, I don't know how much power it made but it was probably around 160-170hp. Injector nozzles are pretty straightforward to replace in a DIY setting with a pop tester, I have done it a couple of times with good results. I am no turbo expert, but would guess that a more modern turbo than an HX30 would work quite nicely, especially if you could get a VNT style turbo hooked up.

What kind of power output are you looking for? Quite a few people have swapped a 1.9L or 2.0L VW TDI into a Ford Ranger. These engines can make excellent power and retain good efficiency if done right.

I was looking at those, but I went with the om617 because I was able to find better priced adapter kits and everything else I need. I have the kits on order, but dont have an engine yet. I guess it wouldnt be too late to go ahead and switch directions with the swap. I also am going with an OM617 because they sound so much better. Im willing to spend more on power upgrades just so I end up enjoying the swap much more when Im done. If you can't tell by that last reason, this is my first vehicle as I am just getting my license. I am just like any other young guy who wants his truck to sound as good as it looks.

 

[AirheadNut]

I was looking at those, but I went with the om617 because I was able to find better priced adapter kits and everything else I need. I have the kits on order, but dont have an engine yet. I guess it wouldnt be too late to go ahead and switch directions with the swap. I also am going with an OM617 because they sound so much better. Im willing to spend more on power upgrades just so I end up enjoying the swap much more when Im done. If you can't tell by that last reason, this is my first vehicle as I am just getting my license. I am just like any other young guy who wants his truck to sound as good as it looks.

Nothing wrong with that! My G-wagen sounded amazing with a 3" exhaust and free flowing muffler. A moderately tuned OM617 should have plenty of power for a Ranger, mine did just fine pulling 5100lbs around.

I have a 1.9TDI in my current LandCruiser, it sounds pretty good too but doesn't have quite the power that the OM617 did. It still has significantly more than the original Toyota diesel and gets 4-6mpg better. Don't expect much for mileage increase out of the Mercedes engine though, they are not known for their efficiency. My G-wagen got 15-17mpg.

 

[JDRanger04]

Nothing wrong with that! My G-wagen sounded amazing with a 3" exhaust and free flowing muffler. A moderately tuned OM617 should have plenty of power for a Ranger, mine did just fine pulling 5100lbs around.

I have a 1.9TDI in my current LandCruiser, it sounds pretty good too but doesn't have quite the power that the OM617 did. It still has significantly more than the original Toyota diesel and gets 4-6mpg better. Don't expect much for mileage increase out of the Mercedes engine though, they are not known for their efficiency. My G-wagen got 15-17mpg.

About how much does the Gwagen weigh? Im guessing a Ranger would do a little better on fuel, but even 15-17 in the ranger would be no worse than what it used to get.

 

[AirheadNut]

About how much does the Gwagen weigh? Im guessing a Ranger would do a little better on fuel, but even 15-17 in the ranger would be no worse than what it used to get.

It tipped the scales at 5100 lbs empty, ran a RTT and 37" super swampers with 6.17:1 differentials. Top cruising speed was around 70mph at 3800rpm.