Another 2013 head gasket goes kaput

[rexington14]

Remainder of HG coating actually looks pretty decent besides the small failure spot. Would be tempting to just leave the driver side alone... Also surprised your piston wasn't more steam cleaned shiny. Maybe caught really early. Was there anything different looking on the spark plug for that cylinder compared to the others?

 

[Artie]

Based on how the #8 crown looks that first misfire may have been the first cold start after the failure.

Based on how things look under the valve cover you are really one with your machine, this makes sense given the response time on the diag. You have either always enjoyed working on your own vehicles or were forced to love doing it from driving sh*tboxes during your early driving years.

Either way, this situation sucks but I feel like the knowledge gained from this endeavor will be helpful for all of us.

From the gasket pics it looks like some of the gasket material from #8 is still on the block deck so the failure is tiny. It also looks like there may be the start of one in the next coolant passage over.

 

[bloc]

So if this Amazon steel straight edge can be trusted, as far as I can tell this block and head are flat.

Remainder of HG coating actually looks pretty decent besides the small failure spot. Would be tempting to just leave the driver side alone... Also surprised your piston wasn't more steam cleaned shiny. Maybe caught really early. Was there anything different looking on the spark plug for that cylinder compared to the others?

I really think I caught it within a few days of anything happening at all.. plug looked nearly identical to the others.

And no way the other head stays in if this is some underlying issue with coolant and HG not playing nicely. It has been so much work to get in here.. I'll just do both of them.

Want to do all the valve springs anyway.

Based on how the #8 crown looks that first misfire may have been the first cold start after the failure.

Based on how things look under the valve cover you are really one with your machine, this makes sense given the response time on the diag. You have either always enjoyed working on your own vehicles or were forced to love doing it from driving sh*tboxes during your early driving years.

Either way, this situation sucks but I feel like the knowledge gained from this endeavor will be helpful for all of us.

From the gasket pics it looks like some of the gasket material from #8 is still on the block deck so the failure is tiny. It also looks like there may be the start of one in the next coolant passage over.

Good catch.. I'll give it a closer look. And get some pics of the plugs.

My first car was actually a toyota camry that my parents starved of oil and it then spun a rod bearing. They said if I could fix it.. I had a car. Got a chilton's, found a local machine shop to work on the crank and head.. but yes I do enjoy it. As much as this sucks some part of me is actually a little excited to tear the engine down to the block now that I have a good reason.

 

[Sandroad]

So if this Amazon steel straight edge can be trusted, as far as I can tell this block and head are flat.



I really think I caught it within a few days of anything happening at all.. plug looked nearly identical to the others.

And no way the other head stays in if this is some underlying issue with coolant and HG not playing nicely. It has been so much work to get in here.. I'll just do both of them.

Want to do all the valve springs anyway.



Good catch.. I'll give it a closer look. And get some pics of the plugs.

My first car was actually a toyota camry that my parents starved of oil and it then spun a rod bearing. They said if I could fix it.. I had a car. Got a chilton's, found a local machine shop to work on the crank and head.. but yes I do enjoy it. As much as this sucks some part of me is actually a little excited to tear the engine down to the block now that I have a good reason.

So considering the evidence so far; catching it immediately, zero overheating history, things visually look good except for the gasket damage, and the straightedge test is good, IMHO you’re good to go with reassembly and a new gasket. The only other thing I would do is use a feeler gauge everywhere under the straightedge. And you are a fast mechanic!

 

[bloc]

So considering the evidence so far; catching it immediately, zero overheating history, things visually look good except for the gasket damage, and the straightedge test is good, IMHO you’re good to go with reassembly and a new gasket. The only other thing I would do is use a feeler gauge everywhere under the straightedge. And you are a fast mechanic!

The thinnest gauge I have is a thou and a half and I can't pass it anywhere I check.. per the manual the block is allowed .0027 and the head .00197. And I could still do a slightly better job cleaning things if I'm honest.

I see your point on GTG with a new gasket, but I'm taking this as an opportunity to totally eliminate some risks since it won't add much to the work. The valve springs are in this category.. pretty easy now that it's apart and I can tick that worry off the list for good, for an extra $180 in parts in that case.

With the mileage and the rattling tensioner I had already been thinking about a timing system refresh while I fix an oil leak.. but now that I'm in there I can see there is no need. The chains, wheels, and guides all look great. New tensioners. Reseal. Done.

 

[clrussell]

I’m finishing up my 2008 5.7 Sequioa that has the same problem on #7.. I did both gaskets, new starter, valley plate reseal and new plugs with it. Along with the Toyota head set for all new upper seals. Sent the head to be machined.

It’s not that bad. It’s just time.

 

[TeCKis300]

Head is off, the typical 3UR failure between the small coolant port and cylinder 8 on the block side of the gasket.

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Looks like you didn't pull the radiator for this job? Looks like plenty of room to work but wonder if that might make things easier especially for those vertically challenged? I just remember working on the valley plat and for a vehicle that is lifted and tall, it's hard on the back.

That motor mount looks so easy to get to in this stage of tear down.

Agreed with others, nice quick work here. If you have more pics, I'd love to see in progress wrenching work.

 

[bloc]

Who is everyone using for fuel injector cleaning? I've used RC injection in the past with great results but it has been forever. If someone is appreciably better I'd like to hear about it.

Looks like you didn't pull the radiator for this job? Looks like plenty of room to work but wonder if that might make things easier especially for those vertically challenged? I just remember working on the valley plat and for a vehicle that is lifted and tall, it's hard on the back.

That motor mount looks so easy to get to in this stage of tear down.

Agreed with others, nice quick work here. If you have more pics, I'd love to see in progress wrenching work.

Radiator did get pulled, AC condensor remained. Fortunately had enough room between that and the crank to get a stubby 1/2" battery impact and socket on there to remove the harmonic balancer. I did get a crank hold tool from amazon and it seems to fit the pulley.. but we'll see if it can handle the torque of tightening the bolt again. 221ft-lbf.. The real toyota SST is $1200.

I've got the front tires off the truck and kindof alternate between having it pretty high up to make room under there to work, or lowering the front end to get better access over the core support. I can say the PS head bolts were a bitch to get out, even with a very large 3/4" breaker bar. DS should be easier based on pulling on the bar vs pushing.. raining today so that'll have to wait.. for now I'm working on a parts list to get the order in Monday.

Yes the motor mount access is quite nice without the head in the way.. will def be doing the other side after that head is out.

I'll have a lot more pics, but for now just trying to get this parts list done.

For now, I did get some better pics of the plugs. Turns out #8 is slightly darker than the rest, but that whole cylinder was I think due to the humidity of the coolant sitting in there?

#8 on the left. I tried to orient them so that the valve shrouding was all the same direction.. (each had a lighter and darker side, I'm assuming due to the direction things are moving in the CC on cylinder fill/scavenge)

8, 7

6, 5 (the middle two, same for the rest of the pics)

4, 3

2, 1

 

[bloc]

I’m finishing up my 2008 5.7 Sequioa that has the same problem on #7.. I did both gaskets, new starter, valley plate reseal and new plugs with it. Along with the Toyota head set for all new upper seals. Sent the head to be machined.

It’s not that bad. It’s just time.

Did it get hot? How much did they end up taking off the heads?

Did you leave the exhaust manifolds on the heads when pulled?

 

[clrussell]

Did it get hot? How much did they end up taking off the heads?

Did you leave the exhaust manifolds on the heads when pulled?

It got hot enough one time to give my ole lady a message on the dash.

I have told them that if I bring them heads they get milled. Period.

They milled 0.002 off of them and they were perfect. Tells me they really didn’t need milled, but they followed my instructions.

Yes removed and installed the heads with the manifolds on. I believe it saved me hours.

 

[Sandroad]

The thinnest gauge I have is a thou and a half and I can't pass it anywhere I check.. per the manual the block is allowed .0027 and the head .00197. And I could still do a slightly better job cleaning things if I'm honest.

I see your point on GTG with a new gasket, but I'm taking this as an opportunity to totally eliminate some risks since it won't add much to the work. The valve springs are in this category.. pretty easy now that it's apart and I can tick that worry off the list for good, for an extra $180 in parts in that case.

With the mileage and the rattling tensioner I had already been thinking about a timing system refresh while I fix an oil leak.. but now that I'm in there I can see there is no need. The chains, wheels, and guides all look great. New tensioners. Reseal. Done.

For sure I’m all in on the PM you’re doing. The GTG part was simply not having to worry about needing any machining. If it was me, I would be doing the same thing.

 

[bloc]

For sure I’m all in on the PM you’re doing. The GTG part was simply not having to worry about needing any machining. If it was me, I would be doing the same thing.

Ah, now I'm following. Thanks for the support

 

[bloc]

Driver side head is off. Gasket looks fine.

I'm not totally confident in the mating surface on the heads though. The fire ring area all looks great, but some of the other areas that would seal the coolant jacket to the outside of the engine have something approaching corrosion under the gasket. A razor blade is making them nice and smooth, but it doesn't look like perfectly clean metal. I'd be open to people's analysis on this..

I would just have a machine shop skim them but that would require tearing the heads down completely, parts cleaning, etc. Yes I'll be much of the way there doing valve springs and possibly valve seals, but having all the valves out at the same time opens the possibility of getting things mixed up and not going back together as well as it was. Vs doing the springs/seals one at a time.

DS head gasket

 

[bloc]

So much room!

 

[KLF]

Driver side head is off. Gasket looks fine.

I'm not totally confident in the mating surface on the heads though. The fire ring area all looks great, but some of the other areas that would seal the coolant jacket to the outside of the engine have something approaching corrosion under the gasket. A razor blade is making them nice and smooth, but it doesn't look like perfectly clean metal. I'd be open to people's analysis on this..

I would just have a machine shop skim them but that would require tearing the heads down completely, parts cleaning, etc. Yes I'll be much of the way there doing valve springs and possibly valve seals, but having all the valves out at the same time opens the possibility of getting things mixed up and not going back together as well as it was. Vs doing the springs/seals one at a time.

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DS head gasket

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My check for corrosion was always a fine grit Scotchbrite biscuit in a whizzer (air die grinder), gentle clean of the surfaces. I'm thinking that corrosion is coming from the outside in.

I would be tempted to Zip tape off all the important parts, then get out the steam cleaner and go to town cleaning everything under the hood while everthing is out of the way.

Curious: did you remove the hood?

 

[bloc]

My check for corrosion was always a fine grit Scotchbrite biscuit in a whizzer (air die grinder), gentle clean of the surfaces. I'm thinking that corrosion is coming from the outside in.

I would be tempted to Zip tape off all the important parts, then get out the steam cleaner and go to town cleaning everything under the hood while everthing is out of the way.

Curious: did you remove the hood?

No access to a steam cleaner or I'd absolutely be doing that. I will clean up the inner fenders and such before reinstalling all those layers of stuff though.

Hood is still on.. plenty of room. The struts only slightly get in the way when doing things at the very back of the heads. Also important to have the hood around for days like yesterday when it was raining (and the gaskets along the fenders are highly appreciated). In theory I could do this all in my garage but I really need the open space to put all the stuff getting pulled out from under the hood.

Thanks for the tip on the scotchbrite.. I won't go as far as the air tool but for the limited areas I'm concerned about some elbow grease is fine. And yes it appears to be coming from the outside in. Odd because I have so little corrosion otherwise.

 

[bloc]

Just thought about this too..

The DS head was in a much better position to actually manipulate the breaker bar, but those head bolts seemed WAY less tight than the PS.

I'm wondering if it had something to do with it being 20 degrees cooler?

I'm keeping the bolts separate and after other cleaning is done I'll see if there's a broad difference in their respective stretch states.

 

[clrussell]

Just thought about this too..

The DS head was in a much better position to actually manipulate the breaker bar, but those head bolts seemed WAY less tight than the PS.

I'm wondering if it had something to do with it being 20 degrees cooler?

I'm keeping the bolts separate and after other cleaning is done I'll see if there's a broad difference in their respective stretch states.

I’ll add to this note as well..

The head bolts on my #7 were definitely not as tight as the other. Significantly less effort to break them free.
On my Sequioa I went back with head bolts. If my 200 ever comes apart I’m going to put ARP studs in it

 

[KLF]

If my 200 ever comes apart I’m going to put ARP studs in it

I would as well. I learned the hard way to make sure you use their magic sauce thread lube when installing, especially the nuts on top. They can gall without.

 

[bloc]

I’ll add to this note as well..

The head bolts on my #7 were definitely not as tight as the other. Significantly less effort to break them free.
On my Sequioa I went back with head bolts. If my 200 ever comes apart I’m going to put ARP studs in it

I didn't notice that with #8. But left/right banks felt different for sure, though separated by a day and very different body positions loosening things.

Thanks to you and @KLF, studs hadn't even occurred to me but that does seem like a worthy investment. Stock bolts and washers are about $240 and the ARP kit ~$390..