Another 100 Tranny Gone? 2002 96K HELP!

[Cypher]

Based on my (extremely) limited knowledge of torque converters, I know that they can hold several quarts of fluid at any given time...right?

I'm thinking that something grenaded in the TC (the stator maybe?), thereby blocking fluid from entering, thereby not giving the TC any force to spin and engage the rest of the transmission to move the vehicle.

That totally made sense in my head before I typed it, lol.

Do you kinda see where I'm coming from though? The TC requires fluid to spin the output shaft and move the trans, which moves the car...so if the fluid passages into the TC were somehow blocked, the TC would remain dry and have no force applied to the output shaft to spin the transmission. This would explain the abnormally high fluid level in the trans (since nothing is being held in the TC), and the sound you are hearing is probably attributed to whatever gave out in the TC. The flywheel is probably spinning the TC itself, but whatever gave out is just flopping around in there instead of moving fluid.


Just a very confused guess, of course.

No no no... I am on the same page with you. I didn't even think about the fact that the torque converter would indeed displace some of the over filled fluid that I am seeing when checking the level. I would agree that either the fluid is just not making it to the torque converter or stator clutch has falied, thus allowing the stator to counter-rotate rather than staying put. In either case the torque converter is unable to apply rotational force to transmission input shaft. This could also explain the "wobble" sound I described in my previous post. Literally, the torque converter, or a component of, is just wobbling inside the bell housing from the flywheel spinning it.

I'm coming in late to the thread here but I believe too much (as in way too much) trans fluid could give similar symptoms to low/no trans fluid. Sorry if I'm being captain obvious but if your dipstick is indicating extremely high, is it possible that you need to drain fluid and get it back to the correct level? Worth a shot at least?

As mentioned, I do think the transmission fluid level is now a effect of the failure, but not the cause of the failure. Upon purchasing the Cruiser, I confirmed that the transmission had been flushed relative recently. At that time, a little over a year ago, the transmission fluid level was consistently at an acceptable level, not to high and not to low.

Also, I didn't see any references to checking for Diagnostic Trouble Codes - not sure if it's relevant but were there any codes to speak of?

It is possible that there could be codes thrown, which I haven't checked for, but it is not throwing a "problem code" or that which would illuminate the check engine light.



As always, thanks again for everyone's posts, suggestions, and ideas.

 

[TheFuzz]

Well, I'm glad you understood my late night ramblings, despite my confusion on input vs output shafts, etc.

From the sounds of it, we pretty much have it narrowed down to the converter - a best case scenario in my mind (at least when compared to losing the trans).Looking forward to the final outcome of this.

 

[Texasoil]

Torque Convertor failure--debris went?

There are tow possible failure points it seems--both requiring the tranny removal.

1) the flex plate or bolts to the torque converter failed. Great--no debris distributed throughout the transmission oil system. Whew! Removing the junk would be both difficult and essential to tranny survival. May need only to replace torque plate and bolts!!

2) Internal failure of the torque converter. This failure seems most probable because of the oil level change on shutdown/start-up. Unfortunately this will require a thorough flushing and cleaning of ALL the oil wet parts in the transmission hydraulic and cooler system. Depending on cooler design, replacement might be needed. All the parts in the transmission will have to be thoroughly cleaned--and this might require complete dis-assembly. The 'filter inside the transmission is not nearly fine enough to trap all the junk ground off the metal inside the torque converter. The valve body may not be cleanable. IF there is any evidence of junk in the transmission, consider replacing it as it is VERY time consuming to dis-assemble, clean, and reassemble the transmission. 'Clean-room' level of cleanliness is needed for long life.

 

[Skidoo]

The valve body seemed cleanable when I had mine apart. See this thread.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series...n-advise-have-valve-body-out.html#post4909684
Hopefully he does not have metal floating around because as you say cleaning might be a lost cause.

 

[NMuzj100]

Supplemental filtration is normally added to a transmission after a rebuild in case some spare bits were left behind or don't flush out of the cooler.

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

I skipped some pages there so I don't know if yall have diagnosed it yet or not. But as soon as I read your description, the first thing I thought was torque converter.

The same thing happened to my brother's auto civic. Sitting at a light, hit the gas, the engine revved up but complete disconnect and no movement.

I don't know about your hundred, but a lot of times if you have to replace the torque converter it's just worth it to do the whole transmission. Good luck.

 

[Cypher]

Tow truck just picked up the Cruiser and it is on its way to Camelback Toyota. I should have details by next week. Lets hope it is good news and not "...yes we do take first born children as payment".

I agree with everyone, if there was an internal torque converter failure and it looks like someone hosted a party in my transmission with lots of metal party confetti, the transmission will be replaced as well.

 

[OregonLC]

Sounds like you've done a thorough analysis... if it's for sure a new trany and TC, why not just source the parts yourself and swap them out? Flush the cooler and install a aux filter. Should save about $1200 in labor, no?

 

[Cypher]

Sounds like you've done a thorough analysis... if it's for sure a new trany and TC, why not just source the parts yourself and swap them out? Flush the cooler and install a aux filter. Should save about $1200 in labor, no?

That is still a possibility and something I am keeping in mind. I still want a good Toyota tech in there to check things out nonetheless. I am working with Murf (mud screen-name) who is the Director of Service @ Camelback, a member here, a Copper State Cruisers member, and all around great guy to work with. I trust that they are going to keep my best interest in mind while figuring out WTF happened. My fear at this point is that the torque converter has failed so early due to the fact that the previous owner may have drove this LC hard or was towing some crazy heavy loads. If that is the case I may be in for more expensive repairs down the road due to excessive wear and tear. If it comes down to this I will consider getting out from under this 100 while I am still ahead. Just my $0.02 worth of thoughts.

 

[OregonLC]

That is still a possibility and something I am keeping in mind. I still want a good Toyota tech in there to check things out nonetheless. I am working with Murf (mud screen-name) who is the Director of Service @ Camelback, a member here, a Copper State Cruisers member, and all around great guy to work with. I trust that they are going to keep my best interest in mind while figuring out WTF happened. My fear at this point is that the torque converter has failed so early due to the fact that the previous owner may have drove this LC hard or was towing some crazy heavy loads. If that is the case I may be in for more expensive repairs down the road due to excessive wear and tear. If it comes down to this I will consider getting out from under this 100 while I am still ahead. Just my $0.02 worth of thoughts.

Gotcha. At this point, it does sound like you're 'a little pregnant' with the rig, so to speak. Unless you're going to part it out, the only option is to fix, right? If it's fixed then no reason to sell, eh?

Well, good luck and keep us posted.

 

[jttexam]

This is painful to read. I've been following this thread since Christmas Eve and we still don't know the verdict! It is making me anxious, I can't imagine how Cypher is feeling. As far as the "driven hard" worry, I wouldn't. As the last post stated, you have to repair this problem no matter what. The only thing else that comes to mind that could sustain excessive wear from heavy towing would be brakes, transfer case, rings and pinions. Not terribly expensive things to overhaul when compared to purchasing another vehicle.

Now, if you don't like the vehicle anymore, that is tough to fix, but if you still like it, keep it, fix it.

 

[mystican]

Where is Camelback Toyota and any updates. Please post pics.

 

[Cypher]

It's official, the transmission is gone...

To be very specific, the planetary gears self destructed in a most explosive fashion spreading shrapnel throughout the entire tranny. I just got the call today from Camelback Toyota (located in Phoenix AZ - mystican). The technician first attempted to troubleshoot the issue without removing the transmission. Once all potential electrical issued were ruled out the tech dropped the tranny pan (something I did not have time or means to do yet) and found a shocking amount of metal. At this point it was decided that the transmission had to come out. Upon disassembling the transmission, initially assuming the forward pump had disintegrated only to find the pump in perfect working order, it became obvious as to the transmissions demise.

The failure is ultimately due to overheating. So much heat in fact that the planetary gears were blue and purple. Due to the fact that the fluid that was in the transmission was not burnt and looked really good, we can theorize that the destructive heat that burned out the tranny occurred before I owed the 100. As many of you may recall, I physically checked the temperature of the transmission with my hand upon failure and discovered at that time that it was not any hotter than it should have been, temperate enough to allow me to place my hand on the transmission case. My guess is the previous owner ran the tranny low on fluid and overheated it, swapped the fluid and went on with life. It just took this long for the heat damage done to the gears to cause a failure. The center planetary gear was completely stripped to the point it was nearly smooth, thus not allowing transfer of power beyond that point in the transmission.

Everyone can rest assure that their tranny is safe as this failure is strictly due to abuse and poor maintenance.

A few photos provided by Eric @ Camelback:

All that being said, a re-man tranny is on its way and will be installed this week. I am still pretty damn pissed off about the whole situation, but that is just related to bad luck and not anything having to do with Cruisers in general. I did think about getting the cruiser back and installing the re-man tranny myself, but for the smallish $500 labor charge for R&R of the tranny, it is just worth having Toyota do it. Since there does not seem to be any other drivetrain damage, the Cruiser is gonna be sticking around for a while longer, I thoroughly enjoy 100's!

I am still extremely confused about the manner in which it failed after seeing the carnage, with zero noise...

Thank you to everyone that posted up, offered help, advice, and great troubleshooting ideas! I very much so appreciate it!

 

[Eicca]

Now here's what you do: Disassemble the transmission, find the previous owner and bury each part separately all over his yard

 

[Skidoo]

Sorry to hear you got the short end of the stick, for someone else's mistake.
Do you have the trans cooler in rad or external in front of rad? Is the cooler cleanable or do they replace it to get metal particles out of system? Just wondering what Toyota recommends?

 

[Cypher]

Now here's what you do: Disassemble the transmission, find the previous owner and bury each part separately all over his yard

LOL!! Unfortunately, the previous owner now lives outside the US and across the pond. I am almost willing to pay for shipping of each and every individual piece of the greasy, nasty, broken tranny shipped to his doorstep individually along with a few choice words.

Sorry to hear you got the short end of the stick, for someone else's mistake.
Do you have the trans cooler in rad or external in front of rad? Is the cooler cleanable or do they replace it to get metal particles out of system? Just wondering what Toyota recommends?

Thanks man... That is a good question and something I will ask Toyota tomorrow.

 

[re_guderian]

Bummer man. At least you have cool looking wheels!

 

[TheFuzz]

Dude...I am completely floored!! Talk about a seriously unpleasant realization. I'm shocked that it was the planetary gears that let go without so much as a single sound. Ugh.

However, trying to be "glass half full" here, you're getting a brand new tranny and have essentially bolted several hundred thousand miles of new life into your Hundy! Although expensive, in some small way that has to feel good.

I for one would be willing to chip in on the freight costs to mail that dicked up trans back to the jerkoff who destroyed it before selling the vehicle to you.

 

[Cypher]

Bummer man. At least you have cool looking wheels!

Heck yea man! hahaha... Hope to see you around sometime soon Rob.

Dude...I am completely floored!! Talk about a seriously unpleasant realization. I'm shocked that it was the planetary gears that let go without so much as a single sound. Ugh.

However, trying to be "glass half full" here, you're getting a brand new tranny and have essentially bolted several hundred thousand miles of new life into your Hundy! Although expensive, in some small way that has to feel good.

I for one would be willing to chip in on the freight costs to mail that dicked up trans back to the jerkoff who destroyed it before selling the vehicle to you.

LOL! I should start up a donation fund. I agree that I have just added a couple 100 thousand miles to my 100. It hurt the wallet but hey, what the hell can you do right?!?! I am just excited to get it back soon. Thanks again for your help!

 

[02 Beast]

Man, totally sucks. I have been following this thread for a while, sorry for the outcome. Looks like you have a keeper now...