Another 100 Tranny Gone? 2002 96K HELP!

[Cypher]

I don't know enough about the inner workings of the tranny/t-case to make anything more than a semi-edumuhcated guess...

You didn't hear the typical "marbles in the garbage disposal" from a diff blowing, or any other horrendous noises, other than the tapping noise from the bell housing that you mentioned. We've pretty much ruled out the differentials. With nothing else to go off of, and everything else apparently working as it should (as far as you can see, at least), I'd focus on the transmission. It rolls smoothly, you can't hear any other noises, and you have no gears regardless of the transfer case position or locker on/off. I'm going to guess that something sheared in the transmission or torque converter, which is giving you the physical disconnect that you're describing.

That doesn't explain the issue with the parking pawl and the AT/P light being on (this points to the t-case), but a noise from the bell housing and a failure somewhere in the t-case at the same time seems incredibly unlikely.

I'm confused now too, the more I think about it. Is there some kind of safety disconnect that puts the t-case in neutral due to a transmission failure? You did say that the cruise control module bounced the RPMs off of the rev limiter. Could the vehicle be stuck in some kind of limp mode due to a failure somewhere?

I dont think you're going to be able to figure this one out on the side of the road, unfortunately...

I'm with ya brother and on the same page....

Have any of the previous documented transmission failures been accompanied by a CEL? My folks lost the trans in their 03 TL-S on Turkey Day and it was accompanied by an array of lights. If so, the absence of warning lights (other than the A/T P) may be a good sign of a lesser problem.

All the other threads that I read here on mud related to tranny failures did not mention anything about any CELs. I as well hope that the absence of lights means that that it is something other than the transmission. Even after restarting the truck several times it is completely content and happy as if there is no issue.

Can you get any trouble codes tomorrow?
When your wife was shifting, did you notice the control shaft lever moving?

No, I don't have the ability to pull codes tomorrow, unless someone knows someone else who will let another someone they don't even know barrow their reader for about an hour, haha...

You know, I remember checking the transmission control shaft lever linkage since that was one of the first things that came to my mind, but I honestly at this point can't remember if it was moving or not. Based on the fact that I moved on to checking other things, I am going to make relatively certain guess that it was moving as expected.

 

[Cypher]

Things to do:
Check linkages to trans and t-case.
Unplug elec connectors to trans and t-case, spray with contact cleaner.
If have code checker, see if there are any codes.
Drain a little bit of oil out of t-case to see if it has bunch of metal.
Check condition of AT oil on dipstick, smell, burnt?
If the dash shift position lights are not working, pull center console and check wiring at bottom of shift level. These switches are also the inputs to transmission control circuit.

Good idea, I didn't think of the contact cleaner... I will grab some of that before hitting the road tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[NMuzj100]

Without nasty grinding sounds I think there is some reason for optimism.

 

[Bawlz]

You can pull the t-case fill plug, have your put it in gear, and check for movement. So based on it not holding in Park, and the whirring sound you heard when you put it in Park, there will be movement here.

If you see no movement at the input of the t-case, you can check for movement in the trans with a multimeter to see what the trans Input/Output Speed Sensors are doing. Normally, when in park/neutral the ISS will pulse, and when you put the rig in gear, the input shaft will be stopped until the truck starts moving, when both ISS and OSS start pulsing. But since the rig won't hold in park, we're assuming the t-case is fubarred in some way (hopefully simple and inexpensive).

 

[Cypher]

Without nasty grinding sounds I think there is some reason for optimism.

That is what I keep telling myself as well!

You can pull the t-case fill plug, have your put it in gear, and check for movement. So based on it not holding in Park, and the whirring sound you heard when you put it in Park, there will be movement here.

If you see no movement at the input of the t-case, you can check for movement in the trans with a multimeter to see what the trans Input/Output Speed Sensors are doing. Normally, when in park/neutral the ISS will pulse, and when you put the rig in gear, the input shaft will be stopped until the truck starts moving, when both ISS and OSS start pulsing. But since the rig won't hold in park, we're assuming the t-case is fubarred in some way (hopefully simple and inexpensive).

Nice! Never thought about checking what the sensors are doing with a multimeter, great idea! I won't have the ability to check this tomorrow, but once it gets back to the house, I will give this a try. Thanks!






A bit of good news finally... I bought a Premium AAA membership today for $134/yr. The benefits are available immediately which includes a free tow of up to 200 miles to any location I choose (my house!) and a free one day rental car to get my tail end back to Phx. Effectively saving me about $1070 ($1000+ tow bill + $200 rental car). Kick ass!!! Even if I had managed to find someone to let me barrow a flat bed trailer for free, and a winch or come-along to get the Cruiser on the trailer, I would have spent at least $130 in gas to get the broken rig back to Phx.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

A bit of good news finally... I bought a Premium AAA membership today for $134/yr. The benefits are available immediately which includes a free tow of up to 200 miles to any location I choose (my house!) and a free one day rental car to get my tail end back to Phx. Effectively saving me about $1070 ($1000+ tow bill + $200 rental car). Kick ass!!! Even if I had managed to find someone to let me barrow a flat bed trailer for free, and a winch or come-along to get the Cruiser on the trailer, I would have spent at least $130 in gas to get the broken rig back to Phx.

Merry Christmas from AAA

Sounds like one should keep AAA number handy. Let us know if it all works as planned.

 

[Cypher]

Merry Christmas from AAA

Sounds like one should keep AAA number handy. Let us know if it all works as planned.

Yea, I agree! If AAA works out as well as it seems like it is going to, I am going to renew this membership after a year. The price goes down to $105 for yearly renewal which comes out to $8.75 per month. That is crazy cheap compared to what it may cost for all the things that could go wrong like this.

 

[nomembername]

Not really. I'm still not familiar enough with these vehicles, but I can't think of a scenario other than a blown center diff that would provide zero resistance while in park. I think the tranny would do something in one of the gears.

Did you by chance remove an incorrect bolt or screw when changing fluids? I know some trannys and xfr cases gave bolts that look like drain plugs. These bolts retain shifter detents that prevent shift rails from overextending. Screw plug Part# 19 is of concern .

Fair enough... Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless!

As for the t-case bolts, that is a negative. I only touched the fill and drain plug. I can see what you are saying with #19, that would seriously mess some crap up if you didn't know what you are doing. You can see my t-case fluid swap How-to here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/441936-diy-transfer-case-fluid-change-how.html

I'm thinking screw plug #19 is in place, because most of the "feel" of shifting the T-case would be that detent ball and spring snapping into notches in the shift fork shaft. Looks like the transfer indicator switches simply sense that shaft as it extends under each of them, can't be too sure on that. Hopefully something in the T-case just came disconnected, doesn't sound like any catastrophic noises happened.

Not for nothing, but learn to read a diagram when you're working on a vehicle. That's not part #19, 19 is the torque spec in newton-meters.

Despite all the speculation about transfer case and center diff, it could be something as simple as a linkage adjustment issue, failed shift linkage, or a failed park pawl (each of which could conceivably throw the A/T P light and leave the trans in a limbo/neutral state).

Are you able to work the shift linkage from underneath and confirm that things are actually moving?

Here's an even dumber question - do you occasionally/sometimes/often use the transfer case shifter boot as a storage spot for items? All it takes is a slight pressure on the lever to exert enough pressure on the tcase shift forks for them to wear and cause mayhem that looks and acts like transmission problems.

If you want to hear or feel if things are moving, get a mechanic's stethoscope and listen for where things are and are not moving. Do this on a lift where all four wheels are off the ground just in case you find out how to get it into gear, so you don't run yourself over. Better yet, have an experienced mechanic do it. Maybe just watch what he or she is doing.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Yea, I agree! If AAA works out as well as it seems like it is going to, I am going to renew this membership after a year. The price goes down to $105 for yearly renewal which comes out to $8.75 per month. That is crazy cheap compared to what it may cost for all the things that could go wrong like this.

Its cheaper if you dont spend anything until you have a problem then sign up.

And you only need the Premium coverage plan if your tow is over 100 miles

Its like having insurance and you only pay the premium when you need it

 

[re_guderian]

Bumer! Just catching up on this thread. Hoping the 2000's tranny holds out...

 

[wareagle]

Not for nothing, but learn to read a diagram when you're working on a vehicle. That's not part #19, 19 is the torque spec in newton-meters.

... Just used for quick reference..

 

[scottm]

Not for nothing, but learn to read a diagram when you're working on a vehicle. That's not part #19, 19 is the torque spec in newton-meters.

Duly noted, my bad.

Despite all the speculation about transfer case and center diff, it could be something as simple as a linkage adjustment issue, failed shift linkage, or a failed park pawl (each of which could conceivably throw the A/T P light and leave the trans in a limbo/neutral state).

The linkage possibility has been covered, but would a parking pawl failure cause the truck to coast to the side of the road and not enage in any gear? My brother sheared his and never bothered to fix it as it didn't seem to affect driveability. Is there some other failure of the parking pawl that would shut down the transmission like this?
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Does your insurance coverage include towing and rental? USAA does, not sure if that's unique to them.

 

[nomembername]

Duly noted, my bad.



The linkage possibility has been covered, but would a parking pawl failure cause the truck to coast to the side of the road and not enage in any gear? My brother sheared his and never bothered to fix it as it didn't seem to affect driveability. Is there some other failure of the parking pawl that would shut down the transmission like this?

Not an expert on Toyota transmissions, but if a part (like the pawl) snapped a piece off and jammed the in the linkage (causing it to fail) or jammed up the output shaft (or rode against the park wheel one too many times) it could also screw up the output shaft or jam the linkage between selected gears... or even in neutral. Do these transmissions, electronically controlled, have a failsafe mode, i.e. do they default to neutral to save themselves if they sense a sudden lockup that would otherwise result in catastrophic failure the way the medium and heavy duty Allisons do (and the light duties are starting to)? That would be smart engineering on Toyota's part.

All of this thread is speculation, and some pretty unsafe recommendations (climb under the truck while your wife revs it and shifts through the gears! ) that could ultimately cost the poor guy more $$ or even his life.

Get the truck towed to a qualified and competent shop. Lots of things are good to learn how to do, but something like this is good to learn by watching and asking a pro... not the internet.

 

[scottm]

Mud has some very capable and experienced individuals who have saved people much money and grief in situations like this. The last guy who posted up symptoms somewhat like this had an experienced and highly recommended professional order him a new t-case for $4k, when all he needed was a snap-ring, which would've been obvious if he'd followed the suggestions here. Toyota put a new torque converter in my truck before I discovered the vibration was because they had overfilled the crankcase. Don't discount the wisdom of Mud. I'd pay good money to hear speculation from people who love this stuff over professionals who have to solve problems as quickly as possible.

 

[nomembername]

Mud has some very capable and experienced individuals who have saved people much money and grief in situations like this. The last guy who posted up symptoms somewhat like this had an experienced and highly recommended professional order him a new t-case for $4k, when all he needed was a snap-ring, which would've been obvious if he'd followed the suggestions here. Toyota put a new torque converter in my truck before I discovered the vibration was because they had overfilled the crankcase. Don't discount the wisdom of Mud. I'd pay good money to hear speculation from people who love this stuff over professionals who have to solve problems as quickly as possible.

So you think "climb under a running truck and have someone run it through the gears" is good tech advice?

Good luck and God bless, pal.

 

[scottm]

So you think "climb under a running truck and have someone run it through the gears" is good tech advice?

Good luck and God bless, pal.

It was no accident that I didn't respond to that portion of your post. There is always someone who will post up that some suggestion isn't entirely safe if done exactly as described without any safety measures.

 

[Bawlz]

All of this thread is speculation, and some pretty unsafe recommendations (climb under the truck while your wife revs it and shifts through the gears! ) that could ultimately cost the poor guy more $$ or even his life.

Get the truck towed to a qualified and competent shop. Lots of things are good to learn how to do, but something like this is good to learn by watching and asking a pro... not the internet.

Alright Debbie Downer, I never said "climb under the truck while your wife revs it and shifts through the gears". There are very safe ways to do everything I recommended, without getting under the truck while it's running, and without a lift. If you read the posts thoroughly, Cypher was the one that said he had climbed under the running truck and "COMPLETELY" trusted his wife (so I'm assuming that means he trusted her to keep the e-brake firmly set, and her foot firmly on the brake pedal).

So you think "climb under a running truck and have someone run it through the gears" is good tech advice?

Good luck and God bless, pal.

Re-read what was posted, that is not a direct quote.

 

[Elijah]

Mud has some very capable and experienced individuals who have saved people much money and grief in situations like this. The last guy who posted up symptoms somewhat like this had an experienced and highly recommended professional order him a new t-case for $4k, when all he needed was a snap-ring, which would've been obvious if he'd followed the suggestions here. Toyota put a new torque converter in my truck before I discovered the vibration was because they had overfilled the crankcase. Don't discount the wisdom of Mud. I'd pay good money to hear speculation from people who love this stuff over professionals who have to solve problems as quickly as possible.

Agree with you 100% on this, Scott. I have saved thousands and even helped others save thousands of dollars from the knowledge and experience shared on Mud. I trust Mud's advice over 99.9% of the certified Toyota techs out there. We have a local Toyota tech, Will Carrol, and he would be the ONE Toyota certified tech that I would trust local to me.

 

[Eicca]

Our family '99 just turned 160k... Hope that tranny holds out too dang it!

 

[TheFuzz]

Lets keep this on point with the tech, guys. I personally don't care about who recommends what procedures as long as Cypher is safe and uses some degree of common sense in carrying out our suggestions (which he has already thoroughly demonstrated in other posts).

This is the problem with the internet - you can't take what someone types (in an instructional format) verbatim as *exactly* how to do it all of the time - most of us assume that suggestions on here are open to interpretation, and necessary safety protocols should ALWAYS be followed.

There have been lots of great idea/suggestions thus far - lets keep it up. Remember that we have someone who's truck is down and needs our help.