Analysis paralysis with GX460 lift, wheels, and tires decisions (1 Viewer)

[Roody]

Hi folks. I'm relatively new to the GX460 world having recently left the closely-related 4Runner community and I just picked up a 2018 base model GX460. I'm looking for some help breaking through the "analysis paralysis" barrier in regards to lift, wheel, and tire options. I'll preface this with the note that the end-goal is to retain as close to factory-like on-road comfort as possible while bumping up the off-road abilities, all within a fairly strict budget. I'm not looking for full-on rock crawler capability, but (as you all know) the trails in the Northeast are supremely rocky and a lot of the wheeling is creeping along in 4-low with the suspension undergoing constant stress and flex. I do intend to drive out west and run some of the trails in CO and UT as well, so road trip comfort is crucial as is durability. The GX will be a "do-it-all" vehicle for me, from daily duty to wheeling to beach trips to occasionally pulling a trailer for work (no more than 5k lbs).

The starting point, and catch, is that I already have a set of 285/70/17 Toyo Open Country AT3s that I am supposed to review for multiple outlets (These were supposed to go on a prior vehicle but can now go on the GX). I am planning to do the lift kit install myself with a friend and trying to approach the "build" with the intention of avoiding a BMC. I acknowledge every vehicle and setup is different and I may need to do so regardless, but if at all possible I'd prefer to not have to. That in mind, I've done an enormous amount of searching and reading older thread, and this forum has already been a wealth of knowledge but I'm looking for some situation-specific direction. Without further ado, the questions at hand...

Lift kits: Looking to gain clearance to run for the aforementioned tires and improve off-road capability. Once on the vehicle I don't plan on adjusting the suspension much so not sure if that should be a factor. I would like to retain as much of the GX's fantastic on-road comfort as possible, as the GX will be my daily driver and driving on tarmac will always be a necessity of getting to the trailhead before the off-road fun begins. I am extremely fortunate and grateful to have been offered discounts by the manufacturers of each of the following kits as they will be featured as part of the build on the outlets I contribute to. As such, the prices are all fairly close together, separated by only a few hundred bucks when all is said and done. Will eventually be adding front bumper, winch, and sliders, but timeline for this is TBD. The options, all of which are hard to find negative experiences with on here, are:

• Ironman 4x4 Foam Cell Pro Stage 2 kit - Have only read good things about the Ironman lifts and like the inclusion of UCAs that use OEM ball joints in their kits. I'm also a sucker for the bright green coils. For some reason just have a good feeling about this setup. Components look beefy and their customer support seems excellent. Leaning towards this kit at the moment.
• Dobinsons IMS - Only heard good things as well. Would add SPC UCAs offered through Dobinsons.
• Toytec Ultimate Boss or Aluma - Apparently made by Elka. The most expensive of the three once UCAs are added. Have read this is also a fairly stiff-riding kit, if anyone can confirm/deny.

Wheels: I'm weary of spending big money-- or any "real money"-- on wheels as they are, in my experience, usually the first item to take abuse from rocks after tires. Options as such are:

• FJ Cruiser 17" steelies, 17x7.5, +15 offset - Pros are they look good (subjective), can be hammered back into place, and are inexpensive. Cons are the weight (heavy at almost 30# ea), and would need to swap TPMS sensors over from my OEM wheels which is a slight inconvenience. Unknown is whether additional trimming/cutting will be required due to the offset.
• Stock 18" 6-spoke OEM wheels, 18x7.5, +25mm offset - Pros are they don't cost any extra money. Cons are less sidewall than with 17"s. Unknown is same as for the FJ steelies.

Tires: Here's where things get ever-so-slightly complicated, or rather road-blocked. The tires used will be Toyo Open Country AT3s. Again, keeping the tires I already have would be optimal.

• 285/70/17 - I already have a brand new set of these ready to go. Any other size would require an additional investment. Would prefer to stick with these.
• Other sizes being considered (which would take some logistics and investment on both the time and money side): 285/65/18, 255/70/17, 255/70/18, 255/80/17, 265/70/18, 265/70/17, 275/70/17, 275/65/18

And such is my dilemma. I've thought this whole thing through time and time again, played out every possible scenario, read more threads than any sane person should, and yet here I am. Any and all insight is greatly appreciated. Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts-- thanks in advance!

 

[re_guderian]

I'll make it easy. Ironman kit on sale now for 30% off. Stick with 17" wheels to maximize sidewall for off-road. Your choice on price, from OEM 4Runner takeoffs, up to $500 each for aftermarket. I went TRD Off Road Pro's from a 4Runner, $350 for a set of 4 on OfferUp. Run the tires you have. Spend the money you saved on some skids, front to back, for when you drag it over the rocks (RCI or BudBuilt). Oh, and some sliders, your choice, they all seem to do the job.

 

[Banandalorian]

Ditching the OEM Lexus wheels for basically anything with a lower offset and adding real tires immediately gets rid of the soccer van aesthetic. I think more sidewall of 17s looks better and you can probably find 4Runner take-offs for less than the price of new tires.

Getting a lift alleviates the problem but you'll definitely want sliders and more skid platers sooner rather than later. The OEM side steps love to whack into every single thing and it doesn't take much to crush/break them. Sliders also take maybe an hour to install with a buddy or two. The OEM front skid seems adequate, but the fuel tank and some of the mechanical bits in the middle are pretty exposed to an errant pointy rock. I'm currently debating adding skids piece-meal or just getting a full set from BudBuilt.

 

[xychromosome]

something else to consider is that the 285/70/17 tires you have are 32.7" and will likely require you to do some fender mod to accommodate them. I went with the 32" route and stuck with 18" (275/65/18) and had to do some light modification, but would think the extra 0.7" would require a lot more work. Plus, with the much larger tire, you are now looking at having to carry a full size spare somewhere as it won't fit underneath anymore. The cost of an external tire carrier is significant.
Depending on the type of wheeling you plan to do, sticking with 18" may be sufficient. I have plenty of sidewall with my 275/65/18 for airing down when needed, although I have only done light trail and beach.
Finally, remember to look at overall weight gain of whatever wheel and tire choice you end up going with. That may make a bigger impact than you expected on every day driving.

 

[Roody]

That was quick! Thanks for the input thus far. I certainly wrote enough in the original post so will try to keep my responses concise:

@re_guderian - Fair points. I love the 4Runner TRDOR wheels but they're a) only 7" wide which I know isn't/shouldn't be an issue for 285s but would always be in the back of my mind as a slight concern, and b) Impossible to find for under $600/set locally.

@Banandalorian - Fully agree about the stock armor, or lack thereof. Sliders are likely in the spring.

@xychromosome - The zip-tie/fender mod doesn't worry me; no issue there. Weight gain with bigger wheels/tires is inevitable unfortunately based on circumstances and budget, but I'm weighing pros/cons of the 17" steelies with the opportunity to upgrade to a lighter 17" wheel in the future.

 

[r2m]

Aside from 17" tires giving more sidewall comfort and off road-ability, they generally will be quite cheaper than an equal size (diameter) 18" tire.
So if you plan on keeping your GX, as you go through tires, you will end up ahead in $$.

 

[re_guderian]

OD/width being equal, the 17" tire and wheel combo is almost always lighter than the 18"one. I thought TRD's were 7.5" width? Could be wrong, though.

 

[Roody]

@r2m - This is true, not that any tires are inexpensive these days... but that is a good thing to be considering. Not on the mileage front as I'm likely to do <5k miles/year, but because of the nature of the trails it'll be on. Rocks aren't kind to tires...

@re_guderian - I stand corrected, the TRDOR wheels are in fact 17x7.5 but that unfortunately doesn't change how expensive a set is in the Northeast!

 

[Rust Cohle]

... I'll preface this with the note that the end-goal is to retain as close to factory-like on-road comfort as possible while bumping up the off-road abilities, all within a fairly strict budget. .....

• Ironman 4x4 Foam Cell Pro Stage 2 kit - Have only read good things about the Ironman lifts and like the inclusion of UCAs that use OEM ball joints in their kits. I'm also a sucker for the bright green coils. For some reason just have a good feeling about this setup. Components look beefy and their customer support seems excellent. Leaning towards this kit at the moment....

And such is my dilemma. I've thought this whole thing through time and time again, played out every possible scenario, read more threads than any sane person should, and yet here I am. Any and all insight is greatly appreciated. Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts-- thanks in advance!

Believe me I have been there. I had similar desires as you, plus looks. I went with the Ironman 4x4 FCP Stage 2 kit, pre-built front coil-overs with 2.5" front and 2.0" rear. I have a base 2010. Builds - Another Mild Build - 2010 GX460 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/another-mild-build-2010-gx460.1228270/

I also went with: 17x9 wheels with -12 offset and Falken Wildpeak AT3W Passenger rated tires 285/70/17 (keep your 285/70/17s but you will need to trim and heat gun).

The point of my post. I wanted to give you feedback on the Ironman FCP lift. I really like the look. They are very beefy. I feel confident blazing down washboard roads in Southern Utah. They are stiff so I feel planted going fast on the freeway and don't feel the boaty sway for a lifted vehicle. However, on that last point, it will be a stiffer, bouncier ride around town. The lift was one of the first things I did and had stock wheels and tires for a few months before I put on sliders and swapped the wheels/tires. The difference in harshness from stock suspension was very noticeable. Like teeth rattling noticeable. I almost considered going back to stock. After adding larger tires and a bit of weight with the sliders, the harshness was a bit less so. I have also gotten used to it. Just so you are aware, to me the stock GX drove much like a crossover (I compare it to my Highlander). After the lift, it feels every bit like a truck. It feels good on freeway, but rolling around town I still feel it, every bump. This is my first truck though (other than a RAM Rebel rental I had for about 3 weeks). Sedans and crossovers previously.

Just my input for you to make an informed decision.

 

[Roody]

Very much appreciate it! Wonder if the suspension had time to settle as well, in my experience lift kits usually soften up slightly over time. KDSS definitely helps the around-town handling and driveability, at stock height at least, but I won't mind it being somewhat more truck-like.

 

[Banandalorian]

Believe me I have been there. I had similar desires as you, plus looks. I went with the Ironman 4x4 FCP Stage 2 kit, pre-built front coil-overs with 2.5" front and 2.0" rear. I have a base 2010. Builds - Another Mild Build - 2010 GX460 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/another-mild-build-2010-gx460.1228270/

I also went with: 17x9 wheels with -12 offset and Falken Wildpeak AT3W Passenger rated tires 285/70/17 (keep your 285/70/17s but you will need to trim and heat gun).

The point of my post. I wanted to give you feedback on the Ironman FCP lift. I really like the look. They are very beefy. I feel confident blazing down washboard roads in Southern Utah. They are stiff so I feel planted going fast on the freeway and don't feel the boaty sway for a lifted vehicle. However, on that last point, it will be a stiffer, bouncier ride around town. The lift was one of the first things I did and had stock wheels and tires for a few months before I put on sliders and swapped the wheels/tires. The difference in harshness from stock suspension was very noticeable. Like teeth rattling noticeable. I almost considered going back to stock. After adding larger tires and a bit of weight with the sliders, the harshness was a bit less so. I have also gotten used to it. Just so you are aware, to me the stock GX drove much like a crossover (I compare it to my Highlander). After the lift, it feels every bit like a truck. It feels good on freeway, but rolling around town I still feel it, every bump. This is my first truck though (other than a RAM Rebel rental I had for about 3 weeks). Sedans and crossovers previously.

Just my input for you to make an informed decision.

Which springs did you go with? My one rule is that I can't ruin Lexus comfort so FCPs might come off my list of possibly lifts if it is that bad.

 

[Rednexus]

I have the FCP kit on my GX470. It rides much better than the GX did stock, but is definitely not as cushy. It's firm but not harsh. I'm at the softest spring setting, as well. The biggest difference is the amount of control. The GX is much more restrained and composed after hitting dips/potholes/bumps etc. It has less body roll, and less nose dive during braking. The ride on gravel/rough roads is fantastic and much better than OEM (it's where the FCP kit really shines - blasting down rough backroads). However it does not ride like a Cadillac any longer - more truck-like for sure. I would never want to go back to the OEM suspension after having the FCP kit.

 

[Rust Cohle]

Which springs did you go with? My one rule is that I can't ruin Lexus comfort so FCPs might come off my list of possibly lifts if it is that bad.

I went with the softest available. I must also say I am sensitive, so take that into account. Before you cross off of the list see other's comments. I don't know if gas shocks would be softer (FCPs are oil of course). In the end I like the FCPs, but people should be aware it won't be the same as a stock ride. My $0.02.

 

[Roody]

Would be deeply curious to try all three suspension setups on the same vehicle to see how they compare on and off road. Would only take is time and a boatload of money...

 

[Rednexus]

It's really too bad we can't "try before we buy" with suspensions. Maybe a vendor will take note and have a fleet for 120/150 series platforms with various suspensions and a test track for folks to use .

 

[Roody]

It's really too bad we can't "try before we buy" with suspensions. Maybe a vendor will take note and have a fleet for 120/150 series platforms with various suspensions and a test track for folks to use .

That would be the dream! Only a matter of time before these things are popular enough to at least be able to cross-shop the suspension kits using members' vehicles.

 

[Roody]

I've done extensive searching and again have run into a point of looking for insight as to how to avoid a BMC with an Ironman lift and 285/70/17s.

What wheel width and offset would be the best so as to avoid the likelihood of having to do a BMC?

I understand that it's very likely regardless of what wheel width/backspacing is chosen, but if at all possible, I'd love to avoid doing the BMC.

Or, conversely, with an Ironman lift and 7.5-9" wide wheels with standard offset (-12 to 0 or so), what would be the biggest tire that could fit while avoiding the BMC entirely? 275/70/17?

 

[r2m]

I've done extensive searching and again have run into a point of looking for insight as to how to avoid a BMC with an Ironman lift and 285/70/17s.

What wheel width and offset would be the best so as to avoid the likelihood of having to do a BMC?

I understand that it's very likely regardless of what wheel width/backspacing is chosen, but if at all possible, I'd love to avoid doing the BMC.

Or, conversely, with an Ironman lift and 7.5-9" wide wheels with standard offset (-12 to 0 or so), what would be the biggest tire that could fit while avoiding the BMC entirely? 275/70/17?

With all due respect, what's your reason for not wanting to do a BMC? They are so common, they're like having your tonsils removed!
Most any shop that has ever worked on 4Runners can to it.
The only reason I can think of that you may not want to a BMC is to avoid any permanent modifications to your rig if you ever want to bring it back to stock.

 

[Roody]

With all due respect, what's your reason for not wanting to do a BMC? They are so common, they're like having your tonsils removed!
Most any shop that has ever worked on 4Runners can to it.
The only reason I can think of that you may not want to a BMC is to avoid any permanent modifications to your rig if you ever want to bring it back to stock.

You have a fair point. I'm just weary of modifying the crash structure in any way/shape/form. I know that boxing in and properly welding the BMC retains the structural integrity, but I'm nervous of doing anything to the crash structure part of the vehicle that may harm its ability to disperse force in the instance of a front offset crash.

 

[Banandalorian]

You have a fair point. I'm just weary of modifying the crash structure in any way/shape/form. I know that boxing in and properly welding the BMC retains the structural integrity, but I'm nervous of doing anything to the crash structure part of the vehicle that may harm its ability to disperse force in the instance of a front offset crash.

Not to be overly snarky, but if you're that concerned about front offset/overlap crash dissipation then you probably shouldn't lift it 2.5 inches or install 3 inch larger tires with aftermarket wheels.