Am I crazy to buy a 2020 Landcruiser?

[WesSiler]

At the absolute earliest, it will be late 2022 or early 2023 before a new 300 or LX500 is in a dealer for you to buy. I'd imagine it'd be a year longer than that.

Do you need a new car now, or in 2-3 years?

Then there's the question of aftermarket support. If you want to build (why else would you buy a land cruiser?), Then you can do that right now with a 200, complete with over a decade of product development and knowledge.

It will take a few years for the aftermarket to develop for the 300. So, do you need a built truck next summer, or 5-6 summers from now?

These are the questions we asked ourselves, and a '20 200 was the answer. Ultimately, if the hypothetical 300 or LX500 is compelling enough, we will sell the 200 and buy that, when it and the aftermarket are ready.

Personally, I like a vehicle I can work on and repair in the field myself, which I can with the 200. The 300, which none of us have seen, will need to be a very, very compelling product to earn our money. Can Toyota make such a vehicle? Yes. Will it? The answer to that question. Is probably five years away. No, you're not crazy.

 

[cruiserdan]

I don't think it is ever a bad idea to purchase a Land Cruiser if you have the money. You won't have to buy another vehicle for 25 years...that's like a family heirloom.

Actually it is longer than that. My 80 is now over 27 and I bought it new. It is not going anywhere without me.

 

[slowride]

If you need a LC/LX now, get it now... new / used whatever your budget allows...

Look at the Lexus LS 500 AWD... Rumor on Rumor on Rumor has it that the LS 500 AWD power train is the new Tundra set up...

Which would infer eventually the new LC/LX set up as well... I know it won't be exactly the same Lexus set up, but you'll get the idea...

Look at the RAV4 Hybrid & Highlander Hybrid and you'll get a flavor of the Toyoda philosophy coming down the tracks...

I'm with "cruiserdan" I think we will be VERY LUCKY to see a 300 series with a Land Cruiser name plate on it in the USA...

I think we will certainly get the 300 series Lexus LX 500 here in the USA for "normal consumer sale" and for the "armored car builders" supplies to the domestic and export markets.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I think we will certainly get the 300 series Lexus LX 500

570 > 500. Basic math!

Get it while you can!

 

[Angelo1]

Would I rock a hybrid Land Cruiser? Of course!!! Would I rock a turbo Land Cruiser? Of course!!! Would I rock a turbo hybrid Land Cruiser? Double of course!!!

If all you nay sayers are saying ah no I'm not going to adopt to this and that and that its too complex, look at the 200 series. Its pretty complex already. The 300 series isn't going to be that much more complex at all, I bet its going to be the same as the 200 series in complexity. I am sure the added parts such as turbo or hybrid will be pretty simple to swap out. Just look at the Prius, people rock those to 500k miles and they aren't saying that they're disposable because theyre complex. It doesn't take much to swap out a battery pack etc.

Are you crazy to spend $80k+ on a 2020 200 series? Yes absolutely for something that ancient. Sure, there's the keep it forever thing which leads people to buy these but to pay that price for something that antiquated when the 300 will be out in a year or two...

Who said they are making a 300 series for the U.S? A hybrid would be great if it actually had a 50+mi. range on it. However, keep in mind the battery will eat into the cargo capacity and that would be a deal killer for many people.

 

[slowride]

570 > 500. Basic math!

Get it while you can!

Well actually it might be a LX 350 (Basic Math!) since it's a 3.5 litre engine, but I'll leave that up to you and the Lexus Marketing Team what chrome decal you want to stick on the rear gate. LX 700 has a nice ring to it 3.5 x 2 = 700.

 

[bloc]

Well actually it might be a LX 350 (Basic Math!) since it's a 3.5 litre engine, but I'll leave that up to you and the Lexus Marketing Team what chrome decal you want to stick on the rear gate. LX 700 has a nice ring to it 3.5 x 2 = 700.

LS400 4.0, LS430 4.3, LS460 4.6L, LS600h 5.0.. The LS500 is 3.5L. Lexus abandoned the numbers indicating displacement a while ago.

Agreed, and Toyota won't be using an engine in land cruiser that won't meet their 25 year standards. Just look at prius one of the most reliable engines out there, they have been testing and improving this technology for what seems like decades... I'm not at all against it, hey we may even get more range and stop living at gas stations.

The 200 with all its fancy smanchy electronics is a huge departure in original land cruisers being simple capable reliable workhorses and at one point were also seen in the same manner that all that junk would make it unreliable, but of course not its a land cruiser.

My money is on the 3UR being a significantly more than 25yr engine by that standard. My point isn't that the hybrid system won't be reliable, it is that it won't be AS reliable. Anyone honestly disagreeing with this needs to read up on the intricacies of hybrid drivetrains. Electric water pumps, electric AC pumps, electric power steering, battery cooling systems, complex transmissions (often CVT but I don't think that is likely in this application), huge batteries that eat up cargo capacity and add to already significant curb weight which stresses everything other than the interior... IMO prius reliability is a good sign but approaching apples to oranges comparison.

Besides, a hybrid won't provide ANY power or efficiency benefit for towing on the freeway or big hills. A V6T can do the horsepower job of the v8, but again it won't be as simple and likely won't be more fuel efficient.

IMO a large, simple, lightly stressed NA V8 and transmission perfectly represents the philosophy of the landcruiser over all these years. Even better, straight six, but toyota doesn't have any that provide the power necessary to be competitive in this market, plus there are packaging issues with an engine that long. Other elements of the 200 have definitely become more complex but very few of them will leave you stranded if that complexity leads to problems. I'd point out that the 200 actually improved the reliability of the front suspension and drivetrain over the 100. A glaring current issue, for me, is certain emissions codes preventing 4LO. If you are a day in to a trail and cant get out of Hi that could be a big problem. One day I'd like to work through a bypass for this we can implement in the field. That's somewhere on the to-do list along with a thread devoted to (edit: didn’t finish. Thread devoted to how to remove interior panels and such.)

I get it. I'm old school, and frankly because I'm not buying new (yet) toyota doesn't really care what I think. But where with each generation of landcruiser people have lamented big aspects of change that Mr T thought was appropriate, they have still always had awesome drivetrains that deal with abuse and go practically forever. I feel that we are getting away from that, and I find it disappointing.

Either way this is all speculation. We'll see what comes along. The good thing is there will likely be plenty of mint-condition 200s out there for the relative luddites like myself to drive for a very long time.

 

[hickuptruck]

Wouldn't be surprised if the 5.7L still remained with the 300 series for a couple years before the fancy schmancy hybrid TT setup comes out. Look at the 200 series, outside of USDM, it got the 2UZ-fe til' 2012, and the base models are still running the 1GR - the 4.0L 4runner engine.

 

[M1911]

My point isn't that the hybrid system won't be reliable, it is that it won't be AS reliable. Anyone honestly disagreeing with this needs to read up on the intricacies of hybrid drivetrains. Electric water pumps, electric AC pumps, electric power steering, battery cooling systems, complex transmissions (often CVT but I don't think that is likely in this application), huge batteries that eat up cargo capacity and add to already significant curb weight which stresses everything other than the interior... IMO prius reliability is a good sign but approaching apples to oranges comparison.

The batteries are no longer eating up cargo capacity -- in the RAV4 Hybrid and Camry Hybrid they are placed under the rear seat. For example, the 2020 RAV4 non-hybrid, the room behind the rear/front seats are: 69.8/37.6. The space in the RAV4 Hybrid is identical: 69.8/37.6. Manufacturers are developing these platforms with hybrids in mind from the start, so they are able to package them properly.

Yes, the battery adds weight. In the case of the RAV4 Hybrid, it adds about 370 lbs. The RAV4 has become significantly larger than the previous generation. The interior volume is similar to the 4th Gen 4Runner, but people are getting around 38 mpg out of it. That's pretty darn impressive.

A lot of folks here on Mud profess to wanting a diesel engine. A turbo-diesel engine, with its ultra high pressure fuel injection, urea injection, exhaust regeneration, intercooler, etc., would be far more complex than a hybrid gas engine that many folks here don't want to its complexity. I don't get it.

There are things that I don't like about hybrids -- sometimes a sort of non-linear acceleration response, where the amount of throttle pedal application doesn't bring the expected acceleration. Merging the regeneration and traditional braking systems is complex and many hybrids are criticized for braking feel which can be inconsistent from stop to stop -- that is, the same pressure doesn't always bring the same braking response, and the braking feel can be non-linear. But reliability? Doesn't worry me in the least.

 

[grinchy]

A glaring current issue, for me, is certain emissions codes preventing 4LO. If you are a day in to a trail and cant get out of Hi that could be a big problem. One day I'd like to work through a bypass for this we can implement in the field. That's somewhere on the to-do list along with a thread devoted to

Let's get on this . . .

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I like BIG slow revving V8's and ladder frames for off road and towing. I don't think that's the future for the Land Cruiser. Hence my decision to retire my perfectly good 2000 100 series and jump on a 2018 leftover. I also miss my 1985 Chevy K5 Blazer with the solid front axle and manual front hubs. That poor thing died from rust. But I digress.
(You can all start laughing now )

 

[bloc]

Yes, the battery adds weight. In the case of the RAV4 Hybrid, it adds about 370 lbs. The RAV4 has become significantly larger than the previous generation. The interior volume is similar to the 4th Gen 4Runner, but people are getting around 38 mpg out of it. That's pretty darn impressive.

A lot of folks here on Mud profess to wanting a diesel engine. A turbo-diesel engine, with its ultra high pressure fuel injection, urea injection, exhaust regeneration, intercooler, etc., would be far more complex than a hybrid gas engine that many folks here don't want to its complexity. I don't get it.

A 300-series battery would be 500+ then I’d guess?

And I’m definitely not one of the people pining for a diesel. The only good argument is range, with significantly less horsepower and torque available from anything toyota offers. And the 1VD isn’t even that reliable, apparently. Now a version of the cummins 5L minus emissions? We are talking. But that’s totally unreasonable to expect in this market. Either way, let’s not pretend an intercooler impacts reliability in any meaningful way.

Let's get on this . . .

Doesn’t have to be me. I’m sure it’s possible, even if it requires tapping some wires.

 

[M1911]

Those old diesels had very low horsepower and very, very heavy weight.

 

[fasteddie2015]

The batteries would add weight, but would the swapping of the hybrid drive vs the v8 and all the trimmings, save much of that? Dont get me wrong, I'm on my third v8 toyota/lexus vehicle and I'll do everything I can to stay with v8s

 

[M1911]

On the Lexus LS, the regular 2wd model is 4700 lbs. the Hybrid 2wd is 4850 lbs, for only a 150 lb difference. It’s anybody’s guess what the difference would be for a hybrid LC.

 

[bloc]

Those old diesels had very low horsepower and very, very heavy weight.

And engines like Mercedes OM648 that had the modern common rail injection without all the emissions junk are amazing engines on a lot of levels. Granted, Mercedes has more practice building diesels than toyota does.. all of it is beside the point. Toyota can’t and won’t design a diesel that gives us what we want.. comparable power, reliability, drivability, with superior fuel efficiency and less of the emissions crap.

So we get hybrids.

 

[bloc]

Soon we’ll be debating the merits of a V6T. We’ve been here before.

My opinion is that rumored modern drivetrains are taking away from the core of what makes these LandCruisers. I’ll rest my case with that.

 

[Audiophilitis]

I don't think it is ever a bad idea to purchase a Land Cruiser if you have the money. You won't have to buy another vehicle for 25 years...that's like a family heirloom.

Totally agree. $80k is a bargain for any vehicle that will provide family safety with good and reliable service for 25 years in my book.

 

[ckkone]

All this debate didn't change my mind, I still think hes crazy.

 

[Angelo1]

People pay $150k for an unreliable Range Rover with all it’s wizardry. $80k today is unfortunately pretty normal for a highly equipped suv. I prefer to buy a slightly used LC but I appreciate those that buy new so we can buy a used LC otherwise they wouldn’t exist.