Air Bag Suspsension

[Walking Eagle]

So, I've searched the archives, and Ive figured out that there was an Air Bagged 80 out there owned by Alan Podvin. But no more information than he had one.

Anyone know where to get more detailed information on his or any other Air Bagged 80's?

Thanks,

Heath

 

[cruiserdan]

Alan built one some years back. I do not know if he removed them before he sold the vehicle or not.

 

[Brentbba]

You referring to the Airlift bags in the rear coils? There are a few of us using them to level tow and heavy loads on our 80's.

 

[Cruiserhead05]

I remember seeing an 80 on ebay awhile back, i believe it was located out west but it had air bags all the way around and supposedly could be adjusted to give it stock height and up to 10 inches of lift or something crazy like that. not totally sure, maybe someone who knows more will chime in

BD

 

[74fj40]

air bag suspensions sound like there pretty heavy duty, what exacty are they meant for. anything specific?

 

[Cruiserhead05]

air bag suspensions sound like there pretty heavy duty, what exacty are they meant for. anything specific?

Like brent said, carrying added weight or towing

 

[woody]

a true airbag suspension will remove the coils entirely and replace them with a bag-type setup.

I'm talking now with the guys who make the AiRock for TJ's, seeing how that technogy may apply to an 80's lift. http://www.offroadonly.com/products/suspension/airock/ Each corner of their setup is capable of 2200# maximum, 8800# for all 4....for a 6500# 80-series, that might be workable.

I'm not yet sold on it, but am still researching the possibilities.

 

[alia176]

ORO has done their research...I can remember way back when they came out with a "pressure" based system. However, they found out that the press doesn't change that much on a 3500 lb vehicle with these bags and switched to a height sensor based system. This is the principle used on all Range Rovers and perhaps the new VW Toureg. I talked to Steve from ORO at length about his system and it seems that he understands the shortcomings of the RR system and designed a better system. The biggest thing that sticks out in my mind is his "limp home" mode. In the RR, this meant going home on bumpstops where as ORO's solution is to shut that bag off and pump up the remaining three bags to compensate.

Incidentally, the height sensors are becoming more high tech these days. In the SEMA show at Indy last year, I saw a vendor, Arnott industries, that have an Infrared based sensors inside the air bags. This way the sensors are protected from the elements and won't get damaged in deep mud and such. Coincidentally, Arnott bags are a direct replacement for all Land Rover air suspension bags. Unfortunately for LR, everything else in their system is not very robust so failures is very high, consequently, lots of conversions to coil springs

For our 80, I think we'd want ORO's 6" lift bags so that we can run normally in the middle part of the bag. This will allow a softer ride in normal hwy mode. Once someone figures out the interface between the ORO's ECU and our speed sensor, I think we're in business. If you want to read more about ORO customers' experience with air bags, go to www.rubiconownersforum.com. I saw a few Rubis during cruise moab 05 but didn't see them in action.

If you search the internet, you'll come up with a few vedors that are creating a height based air suspension system. The low rider industries are full of the pressure based systems but their priority is entirely different from ours. They use no ECUs and control the solenoid valves to each air bags using toggle switches. It's truly amazing to see how high these vehicles can bounch with the air suspension. They use larger air lines, huge amount of air reservoir, multiple air compressors and big valves (1/2" or larger) for faster dumping of air.

Sorry for the long winded note!

 

[Bigshone]

There's a company in Australia called All Air Suspension http://www.allair.com.au/mp/product.htm that sells a air bag system for Cruisers.

I emailed them once for pricing and other information, but they emailed me back and asked me to give them a call to discuss the system. I never got around to giving them a call.

Shane

 

[cruiserdan]

I remember seeing an 80 on ebay awhile back, i believe it was located out west but it had air bags all the way around and supposedly could be adjusted to give it stock height and up to 10 inches of lift or something crazy like that. not totally sure, maybe someone who knows more will chime in

BD

That sounds like the one Alan built.

 

[thelal]

Several Aussie boys with 80s running airbag (complete replacement 4 coils) systems.
I have some details somewhere if someone is looking for them.

At some stage I "plan" on designing an airbag+coil system. At some stage .....

 

[Walking Eagle]

Several Aussie boys with 80s running airbag (complete replacement 4 coils) systems.
I have some details somewhere if someone is looking for them.

That's exactly what I'm looking for - details on any 80 series running full airbag suspension.

Biggest advantage I want with the bags is the ability to run them at normal pressure at 3" over stock height (determined by the bag mounts), and then dump the pressure and drop it down to the bump stops. Sitting on the bump stops I figure even with 35's the step-in height would be lower than stock.

 

[inacoma]

Several Aussie boys with 80s running airbag (complete replacement 4 coils) systems.
I have some details somewhere if someone is looking for them.

At some stage I "plan" on designing an airbag+coil system. At some stage .....

I would be interested in what you have. I have been working with ORO for a bit now but it's becoming harder and harder to get them on the phone. I like their ECU controller and will most likely spring for their system once we can get some details worked out.

Kumar

 

[alia176]

Several Aussie boys with 80s running airbag (complete replacement 4 coils) systems.
I have some details somewhere if someone is looking for them.

At some stage I "plan" on designing an airbag+coil system. At some stage .....

Please post any info/links you have on this topic as I'm sure the interest is out there. I for one, would like to do this someday when I get all of my other crap done.

Ali

 

[fzj80kidpen]

Glad to see other folks getting into this air world.
I am interested in these and have a seen a couple of the new firestone airbag setups on full size trucks.
These bags are under every semi they have to be stout.
Look forward to seeing some pics of your rigs on air soon.

 

[helocat]

I will be air bagging my 94 FZJ as a buggy. If that system works well I will make one for my street/trail built 80. Originally I thought this might end up being a Metal-tech product for the 80’s. However it is not with in the scope of what I want Metal-tech to stay focused on. (High performance metal products/accessories) I will get the basic system up and running on the trail rig. As I build this I will share the development of it, so others may use some of the ideas.

A local shop in Portland Oregon has been putting air bags under FJ40’s and 55’s for years. In the Cascade Cruisers we have two major built trucks on airbags. The key future is independent control over each corner. So on hard cambers you can bag the truck over to lean into a hill. I like the idea since a trail/street truck would be able to rise up a bit for the trail, then drop back down for street.

More to come out of Metal-tech on the air bags, as for info. But not for a little bit! (Have a few other things in the development process first!)


Mark

 

[Walking Eagle]

I like the idea since a trail/street truck would be able to rise up a bit for the trail, then drop back down for street.

Mark

My brother and I were discussing this the other day. The problem with running it lower on the street and higher on the trail is the effective spring rate. If you make it so it has about the same spring rate as OME at stock height, when you add pressure to raise it up to 3" above stock height, it'll ride like it has stiff springs. If you set it up to have about the same spring rate as OME at 3" above stock, when you lower the pressure to get back to stock height, it's going to ride really soft.

Running in cab adjustable shocks, like RS9000's should help with trying to create a dual personality for an 80. I could see ending up with one bag and shock setting for street and one for off-road. Though height wise it might be counter intuitive since most will want stiffer for street and softer for dirt, you may end up lower for dirt than street. That's the one place where the nature of the bags is going to work against what we really want.

Here's the approach I'm going to take, unless I can find some more real world experience. Bags spec out a max and min height, as well as a nominal. I'll make my brackets to have 3" of lift at this nominal height. I'll run this height on road and off - though who knows, maybe on long trips I'll drop it down a little and let it be more floaty - like a '72 Caddillac. Entry and exit will be assisted by dropping the bags. Even with 35's and slightly lowered bump stops, a 80 dumped to the bump stops should be lower to get into than a stock 80. This is important to my wife, who isn't a midget, but also isn't an acrobat. And I must admit, there is a certain cool factor to droping it and raising it. Off-road you can use the adjustments to compensate for off-cambers, and to gain approach, departure, and break-over angle for the times needed. I won't have that to begin with though. I think I'm going to start with just the springs and no fancy controls. It'll take enough to get the right spring rate at the right height - I figure my starting point will be just that, a starting point. Maybe I'll devise a top bracket for them that has an adjustment - like the coil over lifts for Tacos.

80 series sure do make the conversion alot easier being all coils to begin with. If it wasn't, I probably wouldn't be considering it.

Heath

 

[helocat]

Heath,

For the street / off-road combo I was thinking of a dual set up with coils. Run the street down on the coils with a mild lift, and then be able to raise the tuck up to allow for full articulation on the bags. I am thinking of a custom coil that uses the same lower perch, however clears the bags in the upper mount.

The biggest complaint with the guys running the bags is the lack of consistent spring rate. The coil street spring would accommodate this. This would also allow for a basic castor correction to be in place for the coil on the street. Then when you bag up the castor is off, however you are now in a slow off road environment so its less critical. (Talking crawling here!)


Mark

 

[Walking Eagle]

sounds like a valid approach - but more complicated than what I want to do. Look forward to seeing it work.

 

[helocat]

sounds like a valid approach - but more complicated than what I want to do. Look forward to seeing it work.

Well I did not say it would work! Just that I am going to try it! I will use Firestone bags and convert the OE rotary AC compressor for on-board air. (Only on the buggy, keeping the AC on the Exp. 80!)

Mark