AHC delete. In search of the Holy Grail (1 Viewer)

[l3n0x]

So I've order the Ironman kit (TOY051BKP - (because it's a diesel)) today. Looks like it will arrive around 2 weeks later. Will report back

 

[geanes]

How are their springs seriously engineered?

I don't know if you're being serious.....but, I'll bite. Different metallurgical properties including how much heat is used when bending is just one of many ways springs are engineered. My rear coils are dual-rate extra heavy coils which are engineered differently than single-rate. Spring rates don't just happen. They have to be designed. The "springs" on my race cars are engineered very much differently to those that are commonly found on passenger vehicles. The "shocks" are there to control compression and rebound. Without the correct springs, the shocks are practically useless. If you have an undersprung vehicle, you'll bottom/top out your shocks (regardless of how well engineered they are) and destroy them. If you have an oversprung vehicle, the shocks can't perform at all as they can't "travel". It's a critical balancing act. This is the very reason the Strutmasters AHC delete kit is so dangerous. They don't offer torsion bar replacements. As a consequence, people who have the kit tend to use the AHC TBs and crank the hell out of them. This overstresses the bar (too much torsional force which was not engineered into the component) which can cause a catastrophic failure (worst case) and/or overstress the shock causing poor performance and potential damage to the shock itself. The first key to it all is getting the right springs for the weight. Once you have that, pick shocks based on what you're trying to achieve. For some, that means just a simple shock like OEM. For others, who want more nuanced control over shock performance, they get Kings or other high end shocks that can be custom valved for specific requirements.

As for trophy trucks, those springs aren't NAPA, off-the-shelf springs. They use coil-overs and those springs cost a fortune. I have had a few in our private garage from time to time.

 

[nukegoat]

I don't know if you're being serious.....but, I'll bite. Different metallurgical properties including how much heat is used when bending is just one of many ways springs are engineered. My rear coils are dual-rate extra heavy coils which are engineered differently than single-rate. Spring rates don't just happen. They have to be designed. The "springs" on my race cars are engineered very much differently to those that are commonly found on passenger vehicles. The "shocks" are there to control compression and rebound. Without the correct springs, the shocks are practically useless. If you have an undersprung vehicle, you'll bottom/top out your shocks (regardless of how well engineered they are) and destroy them. If you have an oversprung vehicle, the shocks can't perform at all as they can't "travel". It's a critical balancing act. This is the very reason the Strutmasters AHC delete kit is so dangerous. They don't offer torsion bar replacements. As a consequence, people who have the kit tend to use the AHC TBs and crank the hell out of them. This overstresses the bar (too much torsional force which was not engineered into the component) which can cause a catastrophic failure (worst case) and/or overstress the shock causing poor performance and potential damage to the shock itself. The first key to it all is getting the right springs for the weight. Once you have that, pick shocks based on what you're trying to achieve. For some, that means just a simple shock like OEM. For others, who want more nuanced control over shock performance, they get Kings or other high end shocks that can be custom valved for specific requirements.

As for trophy trucks, those springs aren't NAPA, off-the-shelf springs. They use coil-overs and those springs cost a fortune. I have had a few in our private garage from time to time.

Coilover springs aren't pricey

 

[ibrahim83]

Oem Toyota with rear spacer or ome springs and torsion bars and a set of oem shocks and you're done.

Closest thing to factory ride quality with a little bit of height thrown in.

 

[l3n0x]

The next question that emerged from the back of my head: Can I get away with my very worn CV's for a few more k's of miles (let's say 5k) without a diff-drop kit after installing the new suspension?

 

[MongooseGA]

The extra angle will accelerate the demise of already bad CVs.

 

[l3n0x]

The extra angle will accelerate the demise of already bad CVs.

Question is how much? 1k miles? 10k?

 

[ibrahim83]

Question is how much? 1k miles? 10k?

Do yourself a favor and buy new clamps and get ready to put them on pretty much right when you lift it. Mine leaked some grease until i changed the clamps.

 

[l3n0x]

Started to install the Ironman kit today..

Uhh.. Guys.. Don't EVER buy a rusty truck. And mine isn't even that bad. The TB anchors.. I've spent 3 hours to get them off the old bars. Should've just ordered new anchors and cut off the AHC TB's from the truck.

The rear AHC shocks.. OMG what a PITA to deal with.. Do yourself a favour, and cut the body over it instead.. That's what I would do if I did it again. That way you can at least remove the 12mm bolts that hold the AHC pipe to the shock - which (the left one) if is not removed before cutting the shock, then it is not removed ever. There is no way to fish it out with the top of the shock still attached to it - at least on a diesel truck. I've tried to cut the rubber part of the AHC line with a blade of a hand saw, only to find out that it's steel braided.. And the space is so much limited, there is no way getting any serious tools to it. You can't feed it towards the front of the truck because some fuel lines interfering. So only way out would be towards the rear if the hose was cut. Orrr if that sneaky one reamining 12mm bolt was undone and the top of the strut would be removed from the connector. Then it would feed out towards the front. Anyway I'll live with it, it lives with the truck forever now, tucked away in the mess that's up there, hope it will rub one of the fuel lines away.

And after 11 hours... The top nut won't budge on the front studs ofcourse.. Maybe it's better this way, so I can take a rest...

The Ironman kit is decent though, only issue so far was getting the rear top shock mounts into place. And that's more of a Toyota poor design (sorry, but it is), than to blame the shock.

Sorry for being negative, but today was the turning point in my relationship with the truck. I now officially hate the 100-series platform.

 

[l3n0x]

Aand it’s done.

Well.. not sure if holy grail or not, but at least I’m over it

The ride.. uhm.. it’s firm for sure after the AHC. Not harsh or explicit bad, but tight and firm. It’s different from AHC sport mode, because that is harsh instead of firm. Not sure if I like it, but this is what I have now. I can’t imagine what the OME shock are like if people consider the IM FCP’s a softerish shock

One thing I really like about it though is that the car is now planted on the road, just like a - well - normal road car. No swings front to back when comming to a stop/going over a bumpstop. It’s just super tight (that’s what she said).

Anyway, have to drive it some more & reset the TB’s after a bit of use and see how it turns out in the long run.

It’s also pretty high, close to 23”, so I think a diff drop (or even better, a nice set of bumpers^^) is going to be needed - but might settle over the next few days/weeks.

All in all, it’s better than a failing AHC.

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

I know the feeling you mean, having the AHC has it's perks, but in some instances (like the one you found yourself in) keeping it doesn't make sense. After a couples weeks, I'm curious is you will still hate the 100s as much as you did yesterday, in the heat of battle as it were...?

 

[l3n0x]

Okay, so after roughly 1000 miles, here are my thoughts about the Ironman kit:

It's just a bad kit honestly The only time it performs great is on the straight highway & with perfect road conditions. That time the car is planted and greatly controlable. See there is a stretch of a highway not too far away where I live, it's a big long U turn with a joint half way cross the road, you go 60mph. I've never seen a car/suspension that can't handle this, but the IM kit just takes the car out of control on that joint. The whole car jumps toward the side of the road and it's not a great feeling.
On slow/bad roads - so in the town: it's very firm. Way too firm indeed. It's sad that my GF's car (yaris) costs about the same price as the IM kit, and that car handles and feels better.
Slow/technical Offroad: This is the place where this setup is really-really bad: it feels like as the suspension is welded together, you can feel every little rock/imperfection in the whole car. Airing down the tire helps a bit, but still it's bad. You can't go fast, because then you bottom it out. If you go slow instead: it's like it's welded together.

I don't know if it's because the springs are super heavy (and these are the lighter ones from the 2 available), or if the recent change in the valving of the shocks have killed the great ride eveyone's talking about, but I'm kind of dissapointed in the performance of this product.

 

[Moridinbg]

That's the beauty of the AHC - on the highway go to Sport mode and the anti-roll really kicks in. No dives/swings when turning on speed, breaking or accelerating. And with the Comfort it really takes away the edge of washboards and gravel roads.
That's on properly functioning and maintained AHC system of course.

 

[l3n0x]

That's the beauty of the AHC - on the highway go to Sport mode and the anti-roll really kicks in. No dives/swings when turning on speed, breaking or accelerating. And with the Comfort it really takes away the edge of washboards and gravel roads.
That's on properly functioning and maintained AHC system of course.

Yeah, it's a great system. Only problem with mine was servicing it would have cost around $8k. And the truck is already falling apart, I'd be surprised if it will be still together 5 years from now, so it just wasn't worth doing it.

 

[Biga27110]

Okay, so after roughly 1000 miles, here are my thoughts about the Ironman kit:

It's just a bad kit honestly The only time it performs great is on the straight highway & with perfect road conditions. That time the car is planted and greatly controlable. See there is a stretch of a highway not too far away where I live, it's a big long U turn with a joint half way cross the road, you go 60mph. I've never seen a car/suspension that can't handle this, but the IM kit just takes the car out of control on that joint. The whole car jumps toward the side of the road and it's not a great feeling.
On slow/bad roads - so in the town: it's very firm. Way too firm indeed. It's sad that my GF's car (yaris) costs about the same price as the IM kit, and that car handles and feels better.
Slow/technical Offroad: This is the place where this setup is really-really bad: it feels like as the suspension is welded together, you can feel every little rock/imperfection in the whole car. Airing down the tire helps a bit, but still it's bad. You can't go fast, because then you bottom it out. If you go slow instead: it's like it's welded together.

I don't know if it's because the springs are super heavy (and these are the lighter ones from the 2 available), or if the recent change in the valving of the shocks have killed the great ride eveyone's talking about, but I'm kind of dissapointed in the performance of this product.

Thanks for the review its great to get as many perspectives as possible.

 

[jLB]

Okay, so after roughly 1000 miles, here are my thoughts about the Ironman kit:

It's just a bad kit honestly The only time it performs great is on the straight highway & with perfect road conditions. That time the car is planted and greatly controlable. See there is a stretch of a highway not too far away where I live, it's a big long U turn with a joint half way cross the road, you go 60mph. I've never seen a car/suspension that can't handle this, but the IM kit just takes the car out of control on that joint. The whole car jumps toward the side of the road and it's not a great feeling.
On slow/bad roads - so in the town: it's very firm. Way too firm indeed. It's sad that my GF's car (yaris) costs about the same price as the IM kit, and that car handles and feels better.
Slow/technical Offroad: This is the place where this setup is really-really bad: it feels like as the suspension is welded together, you can feel every little rock/imperfection in the whole car. Airing down the tire helps a bit, but still it's bad. You can't go fast, because then you bottom it out. If you go slow instead: it's like it's welded together.

I don't know if it's because the springs are super heavy (and these are the lighter ones from the 2 available), or if the recent change in the valving of the shocks have killed the great ride eveyone's talking about, but I'm kind of dissapointed in the performance of this product.

In one of your earlier posts, you mention being at nearly 23” (it sounded like you were referring to the front) after your IM install...

Perhaps a stupid question, but how much “droop” do you have in the front currently?

 

[l3n0x]

In one of your earlier posts, you mention being at nearly 23” (it sounded like you were referring to the front) after your IM install...

Perhaps a stupid question, but how much “droop” do you have in the front currently?

The rear is very tall, I think that's around 23.5" - but I haven't measured since I've installed it. The front is 1-1.5" below that to get 1-1.5" rake (which IMO is a bit too much).
I have 70mm (2.7") droop this way - actually the way I set it up was to go for 70mm droop and that resulted in the 1-1.5" rake.
I could do 60mm droop to lower the rake, but that will probably just make the handling worse, esp. offroad.

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

Okay, so after roughly 1000 miles, here are my thoughts about the Ironman kit:

It's just a bad kit honestly The only time it performs great is on the straight highway & with perfect road conditions. That time the car is planted and greatly controlable. See there is a stretch of a highway not too far away where I live, it's a big long U turn with a joint half way cross the road, you go 60mph. I've never seen a car/suspension that can't handle this, but the IM kit just takes the car out of control on that joint. The whole car jumps toward the side of the road and it's not a great feeling.
On slow/bad roads - so in the town: it's very firm. Way too firm indeed. It's sad that my GF's car (yaris) costs about the same price as the IM kit, and that car handles and feels better.
Slow/technical Offroad: This is the place where this setup is really-really bad: it feels like as the suspension is welded together, you can feel every little rock/imperfection in the whole car. Airing down the tire helps a bit, but still it's bad. You can't go fast, because then you bottom it out. If you go slow instead: it's like it's welded together.

I don't know if it's because the springs are super heavy (and these are the lighter ones from the 2 available), or if the recent change in the valving of the shocks have killed the great ride eveyone's talking about, but I'm kind of dissapointed in the performance of this product.

Man that sucks, esp since it was such a bitch to install. Since you mentioned you can bottom out the suspension at higher speeds offroad, I'm thinking the compression damping is too stiff...I think. Are the shocks adjustable? I don't know anything about them, but some old Koni's I had could be adjusted and could be tuned in that way.

Maybe give IM a call and see what they suggest?