Aggressive mud tire for expedition travel

[astubbs]

Hi,

I am going on a 3 month trip down to Central America in my HJ47 this summer and am currently trying to figure out which type of tire to use. I will be doing research on and hopefully discovering new species of amphibians and reptiles which exist only in very remote areas of Guatemala, Mexico and Honduras. The major limitation for previous research expeditions has been actually getting into these areas after the rains (which clearly means dealing with a great deal of mud) as many animals can only be found after a heavy rain. It's hard to get grants to do mods to your personal car so I'm going to have to pay most of the vehicle costs out of pocket so cost is an issue.

Thus I'm currently trying to make the decision on which type of mud tire to buy. I've heard good things about the BFG KM2s but I'm wondering how much of a performance trade off it is compared to something like a TSL radial in thick clay jungle mud. I plan to have 6 tires on wheels of size 255/85r16 or something similar (tall and skinny). I'm fairly okay with the tires just lasting for this trip if people think there would be a major benefit in the mud going to something like a TSL but I'd rather be able to use them on Baja trips and whatnot in the years to come. I have a set of 6 235/85 all terrains I use for the truck around town in Ca. I have a 8274 winch and sand ladders but I'd prefer just having better traction to start with. I've also been trying to decide if it's worth the cost to put in a rear ARB locker.

I'm also going to be bringing down a set of mud tires for the local scientists to use in Guatemala as evidently they are not easy to get down there. These would be only to put on their pickup for wheeling to remote areas and thus I was thinking something like a bias TSL would be ideal but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for any advice you guys can give me,

Alexander

 

[Bogo]

Put the locker on, it is maybe more important than the tires. As you want ARB, get the air pump that also can pump up tires.

Get a set of mud chains... They work better in heavy clay type muds. Heavy clay type muds can fill in and stick to any lug when partially wet. When clay type mud is soupy it falls off the tires and is easy to go through. When it is sticky no amount of lugs will keep you from getting stuck. Even mud chains may not work, but they have a better chance.

As for tires, I'll let others talk. I use BFG KO ATs with RUD GRIP 4x4 snow chains on my southren IA heavy clay mud.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

I spent quite a bit of time in rural Honduras some years ago doing medical clinics, and in addition to the clay which is extremely slippery in some places, rocks can come into play in many places. I drove in a slightly modded Ford Ranger with GoodYear MTRs and a 100 Series with the same (255) and they worked wonderfully at unclogging themselves as well as maintaining lateral grip, which I dont see the KM2s doing very well with their paddle-like tread pattern.
Also, look at DMCs thread from his trip in South America. He used Toyo Open Country MT's which seemed to work very well for him.
Good Luck with the trip, it sounds like itll be awesome.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Also, not sure if youll have time, but you should spend a weekend at Playa Negra. Its a small island on the Pacific side with black sand beaches. Not a tourist rap, just good local food and fun.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

Mud can be fun, but is usually just nasty stuff!

Usually, a rig needs a combo of power, traction, and ground clearance to make through mud easily.

Your HJ47 sounds like it is lacking all of these! It is a heavy, low-horsepower rig likely to be loaded-down with additional gear and supplies.

With that said, a really aggressive mud tire (Interco Swamper TSL) and locking diffs will make a big difference. Also, it is good that you have solid winch like the M8274!

Are you driving the HJ47 down to CA? Or is it already down there??

If the "local scientists" are running a solid-axle HiLux here is any idea for you.

Buy a set of radial mud tires and mount 'em on some regular HiLux or FJ60 wheels. Use this tire/wheel combo for the drive down to CA. Buy four bias-ply Super Swamper TSLs (like Q78-16s - about 35X10.5 size) and carry them along. Once in CA find some Toyota wheels and have the TSLs mounted (labor is cheap there.) Use this tire/wheel combo during your field work.

The tire/wheel combo you drove down on can be used for the trip home, or "donated" to the local scientists. Maybe you can store the TSLs down there for your next trip?

Also, consider a locking diff for at least the rear axle. The "Aussie Locker" or "Lockrite" works really well but if it is going into a full-floating rear axle be sure to do some research here on MUD about the special requirements involved in running an auto locker in a full-floating rearend.

Good luck! Sounds like a great adventure!!

Regards,

Alan

Hi,

I am going on a 3 month trip down to Central America in my HJ47 this summer and am currently trying to figure out which type of tire to use. I will be doing research on and hopefully discovering new species of amphibians and reptiles which exist only in very remote areas of Guatemala, Mexico and Honduras. The major limitation for previous research expeditions has been actually getting into these areas after the rains (which clearly means dealing with a great deal of mud) as many animals can only be found after a heavy rain. It's hard to get grants to do mods to your personal car so I'm going to have to pay most of the vehicle costs out of pocket so cost is an issue.

Thus I'm currently trying to make the decision on which type of mud tire to buy. I've heard good things about the BFG KM2s but I'm wondering how much of a performance trade off it is compared to something like a TSL radial in thick clay jungle mud. I plan to have 6 tires on wheels of size 255/85r16 or something similar (tall and skinny). I'm fairly okay with the tires just lasting for this trip if people think there would be a major benefit in the mud going to something like a TSL but I'd rather be able to use them on Baja trips and whatnot in the years to come. I have a set of 6 235/85 all terrains I use for the truck around town in Ca. I have a 8274 winch and sand ladders but I'd prefer just having better traction to start with. I've also been trying to decide if it's worth the cost to put in a rear ARB locker.

I'm also going to be bringing down a set of mud tires for the local scientists to use in Guatemala as evidently they are not easy to get down there. These would be only to put on their pickup for wheeling to remote areas and thus I was thinking something like a bias TSL would be ideal but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for any advice you guys can give me,

Alexander

 

[cody c]

Put the locker on, it is maybe more important than the tires. As you want ARB, get the air pump that also can pump up tires.

Get a set of mud chains... They work better in heavy clay type muds. Heavy clay type muds can fill in and stick to any lug when partially wet. When clay type mud is soupy it falls off the tires and is easy to go through. When it is sticky no amount of lugs will keep you from getting stuck. Even mud chains may not work, but they have a better chance.

As for tires, I'll let others talk. I use BFG KO ATs with RUD GRIP 4x4 snow chains on my southren IA heavy clay mud.

I would agree, although I would suggest something like a open country MT, that will wear good, and get a good set of chains and a locker or two.

If your going to be in a remote location I would consider two spares, but if your bringing a set for someone else, maybe consider having all tires the same brand and size, for inter-changability.

And what ever you do, make sure you take lots of pictures for us arm chair expedition wheelers!!

 

[Greg_B]

To jump on the chains idea, what about a quaility commercial grade tire like the Toyo M-55, with some Rud Grip 4x4 chains for all 4 corners. From what I understand, the M-55's are the tire of choice for back country gravel travel work trucks in BC. Different country and terrain for sure, however they are a tried and proven tire for hard back country work. And...they come in 255/85R16.

As Cody mentioned, if you are looking for more mud tire configuation from the get go the Toyo Open Country MT does come in 255/85R16. In addition, I'd still be looking at chains too.

Perhaps check some opinions and threads at the expedition portal as well.

hth's

gb

 

[sandcruiser]

x4 on chains, they'll work better than any MT tire

lock the rear end, it'll help

consider beefing up the alternator so you can use the winch more often with less stress on the battery.
winching isn't as cool as blasting through mud pits, but it is often a much more effective way to get where you want to go. To make the winch work best I would do the following:

1) synthetic line - lighter and safer and easier to use. Not as durable in rocks, but you aren't planning on rocks as much as mud
2) 2nd alternator or high-output alternator. If the hj47 has the vac pump on the alt, a 2nd alt is probably easier to install. Some people will add batteries first, but adding an alt will allow you to winch further with less stress on the system
3) make sure that your winch wiring is all up to snuff w/ heavy cables
4) bring at least 1 tree saver, consider a 2nd one and an extension cable. Often there will be younger trees along roadsides- it can be easier to use 2 trees and an extension for an anchor vs. just a single tree. That extension cable can also come in really handy if your winch point is far away.
5) pully block for the winch. It doubles your pull strength but slows you down.

oh- and some shovels. Never forget the shovels. In clay, a square sided spade is better than a rounded-triangle "normal" shovel as you are sort of cutting the clay out and moving it, not so much scooping it up. I prefer shorter shovels with T handles for mud vs. a long and straight handle. YMMV.

Best of luck to you!

ps: for images/info on mud trips, try 4x4costarica.com it is a forum full of guys who play in deep mud all the time. Also search for info from Tapage (on Mud) and the panama 4x4 forum... more pics/info on mud runs.

 

[astubbs]

Okay sadly I ended up going with BFG km2s in 255/85 mostly due to the longer life they were likely to get. I'm going to donate them to the locals and for a few reasons I had to choose them over a more aggressive tire. First there is a BFG dealer network in CA so they can actually get spares (though likely slowly). If they had 3 LTBs that really doesn't do them any good... Secondly they will wear out much more slowly and that is a really big deal as they won't have a new set for a while. I'm still considering getting a set of LTBs for myself to use down there but for now that isn't in the cards. While they are available from a few dealers most don't have them in stock and given the current interco situation I can't be certain that they will be manufactured again (though I'm sure it's 90% that they will be).

I'm having Mudrak in Sonoma put in a rear ARB locker this week so that should be good to have. Hopefully going with the less aggressive tires doesn't greatly reduce the capability of my rig...

 

[lt1fire]

My vote goes for the Firestone Destination MTs.

They wear really good and provide very good traction.

 

[sandcruiser]

bfg's and chains will get you just as far as LTBs, but with the added advantage that you can take the chains off and get better life out of the tire and less road noise.

 

[astubbs]

Yeah that's the plan. I figured I could get through 1 set of bfgs for 2 sets of ltbs and then have enough money for the rear arb... Hopefully it works out...

 

[cruiser_guy]

Make the locker a definite! I spent 5 years in Guatemala and came to the realization that a locker was essential after a few months.

These guys http://www.4x4guatemala.org/ do a trip into the Peten each year and I'm sure they can tell you a thing or two about mud!!

 

[clownmidget]

I've got nothing new to add other than another data point for chains. In clay and silts they really are the bomb.

I'd be very interested in the "herps" part of what you're doing though - sent you a PM though