Affordable Fuel Injection

[ptefj40]

Thanks for the info Downey.

My gas pedal that I currently have is a fixed elbow type linkage, and not a cable linkage. Would your cable still work?

The plate you're selling, does the throttle cable link to it in some way, or do I need some other brackets? Do you sell the plate on it's own?

Lastly, when do you expect the air cleaner assemblies to be in stock?

Thanks!

 

[wngrog]

@FJ60Cam

 

[Downey]

1. See my ebay #253313004992, it's the pedal you will need, and also includes the cable you will need.
2. The laser cut plate only comes with my Downey adapter (superior to your adapter), but I could give you the plate and necessary TBI bracket & bushing for about 20 bucks, plus I'll throw in the Downey TBI instruction manual that shows how all this goes together- - -plus it will help with your TBI wiring.
3. My air cleaners will probably be available in 2-3 weeks (new foundry) not sure of their lead times. My air cleaners have cast aluminum top and bottom lids with K&N pre oiled filter elements for about 110 bucks.

 

[FJ60Cam]

If you have this style of throttle bellcrank/lever (the ones I’ve usually seen in the AFI kits), I like using the Lokar cable. I get the longest one and cut to length.

A simple right angle bracket lets you mount the cable such that the wire wraps around and secured with a cable stop.

Depending on your pedal (I’ve only used an FJ60 and FJ40 cable pedals so far, others may require further modification) the arm above the pivot may be long enough to give you the needed cable travel.

For the 40 cable pedal, I mashed the cable keeper flat, drilled a hole, and feed the cable through the pedal out to the engine bay (you’ll need to drill a hole in firewall to mount the cable housing):

On this pedal, the throttle butterflies fully open just as the pedal bottoms out on the floor.

 

[FJ60Cam]

If your dizzy is 180 degrees off, just swap the wires on the cap vs pulling the distributor. Much easier.

 

[ptefj40]

Ok, so here is the latest. Having spent all of yesterday trying to troubleshoot why I was getting no spark at the plugs. I called up AFI this morning. I talked to Norm. After quite a time explaining the situation we diagnosed it down to no power wire going to the HEI distributor.

Norm was insistent that this was in the instructions and I have checked again and it isn't. Also he said he was getting lots of calls related to this, and they had put a green tag on the distributor to explain that you need to power the dizzy separately. When I said I had just received the package on Friday and there was no label, he corrected himself that 'they are going to put on the green labels'.

This was a kit, including the TBI and the Dizzy, there is NO mention in the instructions that you need to separately power the dizzy, in fact the instructions says 'If you are installing a complete EFI system it will include a distributor. If this is the case simply install your distributor and plug in the 4-pin connection to the distributor from the wiring harness'.

I ran a custom wire from the + Batt terminal to the removed + coil wire. Bingo! Getting spark at the plugs AND the injectors are spitting fuel.

I think this is a good lessons learned, and I hope they correct their instructions and labeling to be more clearer.

Now onto setting the timing and ensuring I have the distributor setup correctly.

I did notice that in trying to turn over the car, it cranks, then kinda goes into a lull, then cranks again. It's a new battery and a new geared starter, so I'm a little concerned about that.

Phil

 

[SteveH]

I ran a custom wire from the + Batt terminal to the removed + coil wire. Bingo! Getting spark at the plugs AND the injectors are spitting fuel.

So, did it start?

 

[ptefj40]

No, I think the timing is way off or the distributor is not in correctly. Just researching that now. Also, I'm a little worried about the lull when I crank the engine.

Had me confused for a while, as I was looking for a harmonic balancer on the front of the engine, until I found the timing window!

Is there a better way rotate the engine without cranking it? I don't think I have a socket big enough for the front pulley though.

 

[SteveH]

Put the truck in 4th gear, high range, on level ground, and nudge it with your upper body (parking brake off!). Easier if the spark plugs are removed, of course, but you can rock it against the compression and bump the engine to TDC. Way-out-of-time engines can crank oddly as the spark is fighting the engine instead of pushing it along toward starting.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

just bump the key for very short engine movements......


The reason your injectors weren't firing is because TBI works on a simple algorithm/batch fire system.... In order to know how long to spray the injectors, it needs to see the engine turning. Simple TBI uses a signal from the distributor (or even more simply the negative from the coil - if it has spark control, then it's from the distributor and not the coil) to know the engine rpm but doesn't know the "location" of the engine (meaning it doesn't know if piston 1 or 5 is firing, it just sees a signal from the distributor). So without power to the distributor (or coil, depending on how it's all set up) then there is no signal telling the ECU that the engine is turning.


One thing that I don't see mentioned is the wiring from the distributor to the ECU....if it's all integrated, hopefully it's wired with shielded cable - if it isn't - I hope you used shielded cable.

Shielded cable is wiring that has the signal wires internally (sheathed individually), wrapped around a foil and also generally has a 'ground' wire wrapped - then all of that is wrapped in sheathing.

The wires to and from the distributor/ECU should be shielded. Why? The signals aren't something simple like a coolant temp sensor that is just sending a constant resistance (a coolant temp sensor is just a thermistor in a fancy housing - which is a resistor that changes it's resistance value from temperature changes). The signals are high/low signals that tell the ECU if a gear tooth has passed the pickup in the distributor. These values can be influenced by other wiring that the ECU gets, including other signals and/or power wires.

In my megasquirt setup, even with shielded wire - the coil negative (when I was running fuel only) was being influenced by something else, and instead of 1,200 rpm it would see spikes of 30k rpm.

When you add in ignition control this issue is basically doubled- because the ECU receives a signal from the dizzy and sends a separate signal of when to fire the coil.

If they aren't shielded one of 2 things can or is happening:
1) Hopefully the ECU has some very good/smart logic built in that automatically ignores the "false" signals. This is tough for a kit that may not have a large amount of user control/tuning, because every install can be different and the 'noise' on the signal varies by install.
2) You're probably getting noise and it can affect how well the system is or could work

 

[JTU]

@FJ60Cam is currently AFI'ing my '69 FJ40. He has already chimmed in on this thread but you can follow the official thread of the vehicle conversion here:

SS Minnow

 

[ptefj40]

@toyotaspeed90

I'm using the harness provided in the AFI kit, that goes from the distributor to the ECU. I have to assume that they are doing this properly and using a shielded cable.

I tried keying the engine quite a bit to get it to TDC but no avail, I guess I need to have a little more patience (or get the wife involved so I don't have to keep keying and then running around to check) - or I get a under hood crank button thing.

Just to confirm, I'm looking for the lines in the picture here.

 

[ptefj40]

and when I set the distributor, I need to have the arrow pointing at the line for TDC, and the distributor rotor arm needs to be pointing to cylinder 1. I can then refine the timing by using the timing gun connected to plug lead 1 and turning the distributor body to adjust?

 

[deliverance]

Pointing to cylinder #1 on the cap, not the physical location, and make sure you’re on the compression stroke.

Also, put the rig in 4th gear and rock it. Extremely easy to get everything lined up.

 

[ptefj40]

Hmm.

The old cap had the markings on it. But not the new one. Does it matter if I still line that up to the plug going to the no 1 cylinder and then wire the distributor in the right firing order?

 

[deliverance]

Like this. I set mine slightly towards the front of the engine, then as the dist dropped into the oil pump it slide back towards #4 cylinder.

I’m sure you know, but be sure to line the oil pump slot up with the dist shaft before to stab everything.

 

[ptefj40]

ok. I'm confused. I should get the engine to TDC then line the rotor to no.4 cylinder?

 

[toyotaspeed90]

It doesn't matter which spot on the cap is #1 If it isn't marked - as long as you know. The firing order is then based on which you start #1 at....

On my 350 I only set mine bases on the standard orientation because I had everything apart (timing cover off) and it's easier to reference online. If I didn't have the cover off, I would have just set the dizzy in and then set engine at #1, then where the rotor points to is #1.

 

[SteveH]

Can’t seem to get a spark out of the new big head distributor.

Not sure if you have this component, but the AFI guy told me to be sure the 1/4" thick alum. plate on the bottom of their custom ignition module (black box used with FJ62-dist.-style installs) was well-grounded to the chassis. The fact that this heat sink plate is an electrical ground is not indicated clearly in the instructions.

 

[ptefj40]

Hi Steve, I'm getting a good spark now, which tells me the distributor is grounding correctly (the issue was not powering the distributor from the old coil + wire which is clearly NOT explained in the AFI documentation!!).

Now I just need to get the timing correct!