Advice on the condition of this turbo? Thanks.

[kevinmrowland]

Here is the SST the FSM shows:

 

[amaurer]

Ah, I'm not familiar with the HZ, but I checked the EPC; the stem seals are way down in there. Doesn't look like a job that can be done in situ.

 

[Tapage]

By the pics of your cross over pipe and intake manifold I don't see any " thing " that worry me about oil being a problem on the intake side ..

 

[amaurer]

By the pics of your cross over pipe and intake manifold I don't see any " thing " that worry me about oil being a problem on the intake side ..

x2.

I might take a picture of mine for you so you can see what 1qt/1000 would look like. Its not something you miss.

 

[goldchaser]

Geez id just pull that head,sump,pistons etc,then hone it,new rings or pistons and rings,get head checked. Not alot of $.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Ah, I'm not familiar with the HZ, but I checked the EPC; the stem seals are way down in there. Doesn't look like a job that can be done in situ.

Yeah, you had me really impressed there for a bit until it dawned on me that you were talking about the 3B head.

By the pics of your cross over pipe and intake manifold I don't see any " thing " that worry me about oil being a problem on the intake side ..

x2.
I might take a picture of mine for you so you can see what 1qt/1000 would look like. Its not something you miss.

That's what I was getting at, there is certainly a bit more than there was in the past, but you can still see the aluminum, it's quite "clean" relatively speaking.

I'm thinking that there must a (some) bad valve seals on the intake valves. The #3 and #5 cylinders both had ever so slight of a leak on the intake valve when the cylinders were pressurized. (stethoscope hose threaded into the intake got my ear right close to where they seal, could hear a bit of air flow). So, perhaps the root of the problem is that those valves need a bit of a clean-up, they are not sealing up fully and have been letting some pressure back into the seals, consequently wearing them out and then letting oil seep into the combustion chambers.
Just a guess.
My theory is that the exhaust valves are fine since there was no wet oil in the exhaust manifold at all.

This does not change the fact that there was oil dripping out the exhaust at the turbo elbow and the turbo showed signs of blowing oil with worn bushings (new ones have slightly less play).
So I am hoping that consumption is down a bit at least with that work. need some long drives to determine that though.
As dougal pointed out though, the turbo issues should really be symptomatic of other issues (pressures) on the system, but I can find little evidence of excessive blow-by or other problems.
(she has a brand new factory air filter btw as well for all this, there has not been a clogged intake effecting the system either.)

Geez id just pull that head,sump,pistons etc,then hone it,new rings or pistons and rings,get head checked. Not alot of $.

I agree.
But, the motor needs to pop out to do the work (not a problem) and we are leaving to drive to Alaska in about 2 weeks. As near as I can find, the parts are going to need to come from Australia and will set us back about $1400, (not including any machining work that will pop up) and a number of weeks for disassembly to determine the parts needed, then shipping, then work.
Right now, that's a lot of money and time. We just spent everything we had fixing all the rust and wear and tear on the truck,... the motor just got jealous I guess.



KR

 

[Dougal]

Have you checked valve clearances?

 

[kevinmrowland]

Yup, back on the first page, intakes are all perfect, exhaust are all even, but at the bottom of spec.

 

[Dougal]

Geez id just pull that head,sump,pistons etc,then hone it,new rings or pistons and rings,get head checked. Not alot of $.

I wouldn't go that far right now. But I would seriously consider pulling the head with the engine in-situ.
Valve guides/seals are very cheap to sort out if you can pull the head and strip most of it yourself.

 

[ForealBoreal]

What happened with the turbo drain and such?

 

[kevinmrowland]

I wouldn't go that far right now. But I would seriously consider pulling the head with the engine in-situ.
Valve guides/seals are very cheap to sort out if you can pull the head and strip most of it yourself.

It doesn't really seem worth it to only attack the head if you are already in that far.
Even at just that rate I would already be replacing the head gasket, all the head bolts, a few seals and all the ancillary gaskets on the head (intake, exhaust, etc.[i.e.. the expensive ones])
All those parts would have to be replaced again with any bottom end work that needs to be done, and while it looks like the head can be done in the vehicle I prefer to have things in front of me on the bench.
I'f you're in that far it's a pretty hard justification to not just go ahead and replace the piston rings as well.
I am thinking the bottom end bearings are still in good shape, so other than the rings and few of the cheaper gaskets there is not much above and beyond the head job.

At first I did not think you could even remove the head in place but Toyota went and split the timing cover back case to make a relatively easy job of it:

What happened with the turbo drain and such?

I haven't addressed anything else with it, I am going to remove the hose and take a guess at the fluid level, but my thinking is that it's been fine for 7 years, if the line placement were an issue I would think it would have cropped up already, and I also think that is a factory 1HD-T oil pan.

 

[IanB]

Have you done a straight compression test on this engine? I thought I read somewhere that you had and 2 cylinders were down, but couldn't find the post in a quick scan of this thread. If so, do the cylinders with leaking valves match the cylinders that were down in compression? Did you do a dry vs. wet compression test to see if the numbers came way up on the wet test, indicating the piston rings were worn?

 

[kevinmrowland]

Yup, compression test was good, most were at the high end (over) spec but #1 was mid-spec. I put oil in each of the cylinders afterwards and it brought the compression up by the exact same amount in each cylinder (a bit under 20psi more) across the range.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Your turbo has excessive play. I would say replace it with a gturbo as it a direct bolt up.

Rubbish.

There's meant to be play in there.

~John

 

[Radd Cruisers]

When setting the valves, set them to the looser end of the spec.

Make sure that you set the valves when the engine is COLD and has not been running for between 12 and 24 hours. We find that less time, and the valve set is not reliable.

~John

 

[Radd Cruisers]

The pistons on the 1HZ are not particularly beefy, and if you have ring land degradation it will cause oil burning to occur.

Did you replace the seals in your turbo? That might be a possible cause... usually it's pretty obvious.

Changing brands of oils can also cause more oil consumption, as can other factors.

~John

 

[Dougal]

It doesn't really seem worth it to only attack the head if you are already in that far.
Even at just that rate I would already be replacing the head gasket, all the head bolts, a few seals and all the ancillary gaskets on the head (intake, exhaust, etc.[i.e.. the expensive ones])
All those parts would have to be replaced again with any bottom end work that needs to be done, and while it looks like the head can be done in the vehicle I prefer to have things in front of me on the bench.
I'f you're in that far it's a pretty hard justification to not just go ahead and replace the piston rings as well.
I am thinking the bottom end bearings are still in good shape, so other than the rings and few of the cheaper gaskets there is not much above and beyond the head job.

At first I did not think you could even remove the head in place but Toyota went and split the timing cover back case to make a relatively easy job of it:

I don't know how much spare time and money you have. But I'm really against un-necessary work on my own vehicles. There is no way I'd play with pistons and rings unless I knew they had a problem.
I also have no problem re-using gaskets and bolts that work and come away clean. Inspect, measure and re-use if they check out.

A head on and off is half a day tops each way. It's at least half a day to pull an engine (I can do mine in 3 hours, practised), more to put it back and you still haven't done any of the internal work at that point.

The other issue is the upgrade thing. If I was into the pistons and rings on a 1HZ, I'd not be in for that much work to replace them with standard pistons. Graeme was talking about aftermarket 1HZ turbo pistons available in Aus with thicker crowns.

 

[goldchaser]

When i pulled my pistons no1 was the worst,no2 not alot better then the rest looked kinda ok. You say no1 was down on compression: mmmm.
Throw it back togethor and go on your trip with extra oil or postpone it and pull the pistons and rings have a look. I was in the same boat as you when mine needed doing,the cheap fix for a cuppla years worked out good. You can allways pull in later and get it bored and rebuilt properly. I bought a cheap hone and ring compressor,really a simple job if you take ya time.
Worst of it is being under the sump,a bit messy at best.
Typical these things rare there ugly heads just before a planned trip

 

[ForealBoreal]

Rubbish.

There's meant to be play in there.

~John

Well it was out of manual spec....
I know they have axial play.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Rubbish.
There's meant to be play in there. ~John

Thanks!

When setting the valves, set them to the looser end of the spec. Make sure that you set the valves when the engine is COLD and has not been running for between 12 and 24 hours. We find that less time, and the valve set is not reliable. ~John

I did not re-shim any of the valves, simply noted that the intake were all still sitting pretty and the exhaust were getting to the snug end of spec. Motor has always been stone cold for the checks, over 48 hours in this case.

The pistons on the 1HZ are not particularly beefy, and if you have ring land degradation it will cause oil burning to occur.
Did you replace the seals in your turbo? That might be a possible cause... usually it's pretty obvious.
Changing brands of oils can also cause more oil consumption, as can other factors. ~John

Part of why I feel any engine work should include a piston and cylinder re-fresh as well. I did replace everything in the turbo.
Been with the same oil for 7 years, Amsoil synthetic, 15-40 diesel oil.

I don't know how much spare time and money you have. But I'm really against un-necessary work on my own vehicles. There is no way I'd play with pistons and rings unless I knew they had a problem.
I also have no problem re-using gaskets and bolts that work and come away clean. Inspect, measure and re-use if they check out.

A head on and off is half a day tops each way. It's at least half a day to pull an engine (I can do mine in 3 hours, practised), more to put it back and you still haven't done any of the internal work at that point.

The other issue is the upgrade thing. If I was into the pistons and rings on a 1HZ, I'd not be in for that much work to replace them with standard pistons. Graeme was talking about aftermarket 1HZ turbo pistons available in Aus with thicker crowns.

I tend to have more spare time than money, but I've got neither at this point.
With the pistons, I'm not sure that there is a problem, but I'm also not sure that there is not. About the worst thing I can imagine is doing the head work and finding out it didn't fully fix the problem.
Once the head is off and ready to go you only have the oil pan and the rod bolts left to get the pistons out, do the rings and a re-hone.
I don't know if it would be worth the risk to not do them.

As for the re-use, I tend to be a stickler for replacing anything the diagrams show with the little black diamond, but I also keep in mind that they are out to make money at the same time. I just don't like the thought of doing something twice as a result of re-using a part that should have been replaced. Good catch on the head bolts though, I thought they had been labeled with the black diamond but the FSM lists out the measurements to check the minimum diameter where the threads have deformed. Then it also says to replace any that break on re-instal. That slight possibility alone would make me look at the cost of new bolts, having to wait for another week mid-reassembly to get bolts shipped in from Australia at that point would suck.

As for the motor in or out, I agree that it would be possible in place, but for me it would be a toss-up.
It takes me 4 hours including clean-up, to pull the motor, but the benefit is that I can do the important work in good light and at eye level, which for the first time you do a more technical job is usually a good thing.
Even just the thought of snaking the injection lines out while bent over the fender has me thinking that I would just pull the motor, not to mention the possibility that once you have the head off you might find something that means the whole thing has to come out for machining, would suck to do all that work in discomfort just to have to yank it anyway.

As for pistons with thicker crowns for the turbo, if I were replacing the pistons I think I would go that route, they did not seem to add that much extra.

When i pulled my pistons no1 was the worst,no2 not a lot better then the rest looked kinda ok. You say no1 was down on compression: mmmm.
Throw it back togethor and go on your trip with extra oil or postpone it and pull the pistons and rings have a look. I was in the same boat as you when mine needed doing,the cheap fix for a cuppla years worked out good. You can allways pull in later and get it bored and rebuilt properly. I bought a cheap hone and ring compressor,really a simple job if you take ya time.
Worst of it is being under the sump,a bit messy at best.
Typical these things rare there ugly heads just before a planned trip

Yeah, sounds like the same thing, no1 was weak, 2 was better, the rest were fine.
The motor is all together, all the videos I've posted are in chronological order.
We've got a short trip next week and I'll monitor the oil use to make the final call for our long trip.
At this point my plan is to just drive with my fingers crossed, however bringing enough oil will entail 5 extra gallons based on the pre-turbo rebuild consumption.
I know Australia is a big country, but you might not realize that even though we live in the pacific northwest, Alaska is still a 5,477 mile round trip.

Well it was out of manual spec....
I know they have axial play.

Yup, you stated that as the reason for your view in the post, appreciated. It's good to gather multiple opinions.



KR