Advice on the condition of this turbo? Thanks.

[kevinmrowland]

My guess would be compression, what is it at right now or at least last time you checked?

You see now, that's the funny thing (and pretty much on-par for how my year has been going) I did a compression test right before the rebuild, after I got it running I went to do a compression check with the same gauge in order to do an accurate comparison and when I pulled the gauge out of my drawer, I found out the needle had mysteriously snapped off. (actually more like )

I did a compression check anyway as best I could, all it could tell me was that each of the cylinders moved the needle the same amount, no way to tell exactly how much. By counting the spaces the needle moved though they were in the 500s.

Did you retime your IP after removing the ACSD. Knowing you, you probably did after a full rebuild. Are your batteries in good health? I just put new batteries in and it starts better than before. Still need to get my valves done and retime my IP. I am going to go finish that on my dads truck now.

This I did not do, my pump was still on the factory match-marks and the procedure lists isolating the ACSD for the timing process anyway so I left it on the match-marks.
I think it's the batteries, I think compression across all the cylinders is even now and higher on average and the batteries don't push the starter well enough. If it were compression the engine would spin fast and not catch, instead the starter only compresses one cylinder at a time, slowly, whump........, whump.........whump........catch.
I've got a set of optima red-tops in there, one old, one replaced for a faulty cell, I have been thoroughly unimpressed with them. Thinking about switching to a set of Deka. It's only more money....

 

[Leitrum3]

So Kevin, now that you've had time to put some miles on, how's everything running? Any new lessons learned or unexpected turn of events?

 

[kevinmrowland]

Funny you should ask Leitrum!
My lovely string of luck continues for 2013.


It's running just fine, no drips or leaks. I had to invest in two new batteries and it starts with much more vigor now, but still turns over a few more times before it catches which I don't like.
A couple months ago it dripped in the driveway and i got all worried but it was just the new valve cover gasket setting in, all the cover bolts were barely finger tight. Got to remember to check those after a few hundred miles.

Then a few weeks ago it started making a subtle growl noise with an intermittent chirp when it was cold. I tried to track it down with a stethoscope hose thinking it was the AC unit or the alternator or something, couldn't pin-point it though.
Then it all the sudden got much worse and the hose to the ear narrowed it right down to the input gear bearing for the injection pump.

Tore the whole front end apart and sure enough, roached bearing. This was not a new part, but it showed no signs of wear during the rebuild work.

Easy enough job, just a pain in the arse.

All better with a new bearing now.
There did not appear to be any damage on any of the gears even though the cage was pretty much gone. I was able to get most all of the parts out of the oil pan with a magnet retriever and with an oil change and a strong magnet I got the rest.
Lets see what goes wrong next.

 

[Pacer]

Sucks!
Why would this have happened? Did it get banged up coming apart or back together?
Common issue?

Do you recover your freon when you pull it all down like that. Sorry, don't answer that if...


What a pain. Glad its back together, try and keep it that way, will ya.

 

[kevinmrowland]

No clue, I think it's just on-par with my luck these days.

I did not replace that bearing after I checked it out carefully, saw no need to. It's low RPM, very well protected, no way for it to get tweaked attached to the gear the way it is.
In looking at it, I feel like that particular bearing must get very little oil though. All it would see is whatever gets carried up the gears to it.
So maybe it was a bit worn but not enough to see/feel, and then getting cleaned really well it might have had no lubrication for a couple of minutes even, could have been enough to start it downhill.
All I can think of.

Best part of all this, it's a $13 bearing.
Learn from my hardship.


As for the AC refrigerant, at least I thought ahead on that.
I didn't drain it this time, or the time before when I took the engine out for the rebuild.

I cut a scab plate into the valance and had the AC lines made in such a way so that I can unbolt the plate and pull the whole thing out to set aside.
As pictured here:

And again here without the plate:

It's a great setup and super-simple, I don't know why cars aren't just made that way to start with.
You can see in the photo I posted above, the blanket on the left side is wrapped around the AC condenser and it's just set aside.

You can see the same thing in this pic from before with the engine coming out and the pump set aside. I can leave all the systems charged other than the coolant.

For that I have an elbow and a hose extension on the radiator drain though, so I can recover the coolant clean and easy. I have the same thing on the block drain.

KR

 

[ozwallaby]

Nice work on the drains/cutouts for everything KR.... if they're not in the $50 dollar fix thread they should be....

 

[Pacer]

Very slick Kevin. Thanks for the thorough reply. Your luck will change, the universe is only testing your determination. Keep up the excellent work.

 

[Leitrum3]

Man oh man! Sorry to hear about the latest, at least the silver lining is this happened before you take off for a while (I think I read that somewhere recently, right?). This makes me feel like when I rebuild mine, I should just replace every single bearing I can reach -- they're not all that expensive if you do it when you're right there in it!

Anyways, way to stick with it, I know what it's like to have a hard year, I'm right there with you. Cheers,
Leit

 

[kevinmrowland]

Nice work on the drains/cutouts for everything KR.... if they're not in the $50 dollar fix thread they should be....

The coolant drains would fit in there, but I'm afraid the AC lines are a bit more invasive than that, relocated dryer and custom made lines, etc.
Worth every penny though.

Very slick Kevin. Thanks for the thorough reply. Your luck will change, the universe is only testing your determination. Keep up the excellent work.

Well, we will see how that works out.

Man oh man! Sorry to hear about the latest, at least the silver lining is this happened before you take off for a while (I think I read that somewhere recently, right?). This makes me feel like when I rebuild mine, I should just replace every single bearing I can reach -- they're not all that expensive if you do it when you're right there in it!

Anyways, way to stick with it, I know what it's like to have a hard year, I'm right there with you. Cheers,
Leit

Yeah, has your engine been holding in there? Best of luck to you guys as well. Going to put things in storage and be living out of the truck for the summer, so lets hope there are no other issues or it's going to get a lot more difficult....

I was thinking about it, and that might be one of the only ball-type bearings in the engine? Everything else was replaced.

KR

 

[IanB]

Sorry to hear you're still battling with this, before long it will all be replaced and you should be off to the races though!

 

[kevinmrowland]

Also a note about EGT temps and gauge location, pre-rebuild I had a probe right in the middle of the pipe right after the turbo, from my research I added 200* to the reading to cover the discrepancy in location. As such a 900* spike was the most extreme I would ever let the engine see and only for a second at that.

During the rebuild I was able to install a nice probe right before the turbo as well. Rather than delete the other one I kept both of them out of curiosity and run them like an aircraft would to monitor each cylinder, just before and after turbo in this case.

I have found that the temps are almost exactly 100* different and very consistent between the two. The pre-turbo probe reacts quicker, there is a bit of a lag in the post turbo, and then there is a bit of a carry-over once it's cooling down, presumably from residual heat in the turbo.

Both the temps are accurate, and to make sure there was not a probe discrepancy I swapped the probes between locations as well.
All just out of curiosity since there are such adamant opinions floating around about probe location.
They are tractor motors, as long as you add some temps to a post turbo probe it appears to be just as accurate.

 

[Dougal]

Also a note about EGT temps and gauge location, pre-rebuild I had a probe right in the middle of the pipe right after the turbo, from my research I added 200* to the reading to cover the discrepancy in location. As such a 900* spike was the most extreme I would ever let the engine see and only for a second at that.

During the rebuild I was able to install a nice probe right before the turbo as well. Rather than delete the other one I kept both of them out of curiosity and run them like an aircraft would to monitor each cylinder, just before and after turbo in this case.

I have found that the temps are almost exactly 100* different and very consistent between the two. The pre-turbo probe reacts quicker, there is a bit of a lag in the post turbo, and then there is a bit of a carry-over once it's cooling down, presumably from residual heat in the turbo.

Both the temps are accurate, and to make sure there was not a probe discrepancy I swapped the probes between locations as well.
All just out of curiosity since there are such adamant opinions floating around about probe location.
They are tractor motors, as long as you add some temps to a post turbo probe it appears to be just as accurate.

Good info Kevin, but to complete it, what boost and rpm equates to the 100F difference you are seeing?

The temp drop across a turbine is dynamic and depends on a lot of factors. Mainly the absolute temperatures, the efficiency of the turbine and the pressure difference across it.
These are influenced greatly by the boost level.

 

[kevinmrowland]

First off:

They are tractor motors.....

Not talking about dealing with crazy amounts of boost or crazy temps on intercooled engines, etc.
It's a tractor.
As such, boost is pretty much on-or-off. To see any temps over 500-600* boost has to be ON, running full at just over 10psi. Thats the only time the heat builds enough to pay attention to, but even before that, the temp difference is pretty spot on 100* across the board. The gauges climb and fall mostly in synch with each other, other than the timing lags noted above.

If circumstances don't allow for proper placement of an EGT probe and it's still a tractor motor, folks should be fine with a post turbo probe with 200* added to it until a proper probe can be installed.

 

[kevinmrowland]

The saga (and my string of wonderful luck ) continues.

I've been chasing some very odd, variable, and intermittent injection problems and what I think it comes down to is that my injection pump is toast.
My assumption is that when that injection drive gear bearing went bad the load from the timing belt would have been put on the drive shaft to the injection pump, and I'm pretty sure the bearings in there, and by extension the cam, are now f*#@ed.

yippee.

I've been digging around for a new set of injection parts and want to get another pump and injectors to put in, then when I can afford it have this one rebuilt (if possible) and set aside as a spare.

So I have a question:

Do any of you know what year range of pump I can look at for this engine?
Right now I have the basic 783 pump with the HD-T boost compensator head.
I don't use the tach pickup so that is not an issue, and I'll be able to swap any linkage parts needed,(and the boost head) so it's really just the internal pump parts that I am wondering about.
It seems that as the pumps get newer the injection plunger gets larger but with a turbo truck folks seem to think that is a good thing, I probably don't need it since it's not hot-rodded or anything.
I think that past 2002 the pumps change and get some extra electronics but up until then they "look" the same as the earlier ones, other than the addition of an "immobilizer" which according to internet rumor, you can "just remove".

So will any pump up till 2002 work? Or do I have to stick within a specific range?


KR

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

The saga (and my string of wonderful luck ) continues.



I've been digging around for a new set of injection parts and want to get another pump and injectors to put in, then when I can afford it have this one rebuilt (if possible) and set aside as a spare.

So I have a question:

Do any of you know what year range of pump I can look at for this engine?
Right now I have the basic 783 pump with the HD-T boost compensator head.
I don't use the tach pickup so that is not an issue, and I'll be able to swap any linkage parts needed,(and the boost head) so it's really just the internal pump parts that I am wondering about.
It seems that as the pumps get newer the injection plunger gets larger but with a turbo truck folks seem to think that is a good thing, I probably don't need it since it's not hot-rodded or anything.
I think that past 2002 the pumps change and get some extra electronics but up until then they "look" the same as the earlier ones, other than the addition of an "immobilizer" which according to internet rumor, you can "just remove".

So will any pump up till 2002 work? Or do I have to stick within a specific range?


KR

Hi Kevin,
Sorry about the bad luck.
You are right, any of the pumps for 1HZ's up to 2002 will work.

EDIT: just looked at a pump from a 2012 HZJ76 and it looks the same, with the same injector lines. So I bet you can use a newer pump as well.


The front bearing is a brass bearing. Don't run it if it is bad, as it gets pushed out, pushing out the seal, and then diesel gets dumped into your crank case, overfilling it. That can be very bad and lead to complete engine failure, if it gets too full. Not to mention the dilution of the oil with diesel.

You can have a rebuild shop change the housing, bearing and even the main pump shaft. All these parts are available in the US and not terribly expensive. Incidentally I have a perfect pump housing with a good front bearing here that I do not need-you are welcome to that if you want it.

cheers,
Jan

 

[kevinmrowland]

Thanks Jan, I'm not having much luck finding the parts I need in good shape and I'm not in a position to disable the truck while I have the existing ones rebuilt (if they can even be so).
I'm probably going to take a chance on some newer options with fingers crossed.


As mentioned the goal will be to eventually rebuild the one I have to replace or keep as a spare. Just need to get it running right again in the time-being.