Advice on the condition of this turbo? Thanks.

[goldchaser]

Youll be fine,mine was using alot of oil,should have seen the pistons,2 off them,had to be that way for a few years im guessing.
Alaska! Im jealous! Might get there for a look one day.

 

[kevinmrowland]

It's been a little while since I did any updates here, unfortunately in this case no-news is not good news.
I just posted this over in the 60 series section:

Sorry for the lack of updates, I've been kinda bummed with a broken truck in the driveway and temps pushing 100* here.

So, motor = no good.
Last year we decided that since August here in OR is way too hot for our liking that we would save our pennies, take the month off and drive to Alaska.
Instead my wife flew up there last week and I'm stuck here in the heat.


Anyway, we were able to get my folks out here for a visit a couple weeks ago, the plan was to take them around the state (which we did), camp, and monitor the motor condition for a go-nogo on the AK trip. We did about 1400 miles and by about halfway through it was apparent that it would be a no-go.
The good news is that I fixed the oil burning issue with the turbo rebuild, we didn't loose any oil on the trip, but apparently the turbo needed to be rebuilt due to slowly increasing crank-case pressures as a result of the #1 piston failing. We lost power and developed a rhythmic stumble. Removing the oil cap or dipstick shows a synchronized puff-puff-puff of blow-by. By the trips end we were a 5 cylinder, cold starts are pretty rough, the number one cylinder won't compression ignite until the friction builds up some heat.
All that considered, the truck still ran remarkably well.
In all likelihood we probably could have driven to AK and back, but the risk to motor and truck (and wallet) is just too high to justify.
Instead my wife had her sister scrounge up some flights and she flew up there earlier this week, cheaper in the long run but a real downer.


So I've been moping around and trying to stay out of the heat. But I got off my arse this past week to get some work done, the motor is not doing any good in the truck even if I can't afford to fix it, so yesterday afternoon I took the motor out and today I worked on tearing it down a bit.

Before I pulled the motor I did another compression check, all pistons were fine but the #1 was 175psi lower than it's already lower reading from before.

Here is a video of the blow-by at a road-side stop from the trip:

So this is now a motor rebuild thread.


Here is one more video from the driveway back home to show the new oil cap test:

 

[kevinmrowland]

First the good news, this is the sum total of our oil usage from the 1400 miles of our trip around OR with my folks:

So it seems like the old seals in the turbo wear old enough to be affected by the crank case pressures from the #1 cylinder building.
The new seals have fixed the symptom, not the problem though.

 

[kevinmrowland]

So yesterday afternoon I did this:

(after having just put it all back together 4 months ago. )

And I have a nice, easy to get to lump in my garage now.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Today I worked on tearing the motor down a bit.

The moment of truth, this is the #1 cylinder:

There are a set of scores like this, separated 180*, one can not be felt, the other (this one) can be felt with your finger.
I can't decide if it might be fixed with a hone, or if it needs to be bored out?


All the other cylinder walls are perfect:

 

[kevinmrowland]

All the pre-cups are cracked in this location as well, is that common?

 

[kevinmrowland]

And finally for today, having never removed the injection pump, do I have this puller set up for the correct operation?

Didn't want to crank down on it before checking, the diagram in the FSM does not give me much info.


So, here goes a motor re-furb.
Thanks in advance for the help.

KR

 

[Dougal]

As much as it sucks to find something like this. There is always relief that you have finally found it.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Yeah, lurking problems are much worse than the ones you can set your eyes on.
I like the work, much prefer to know the motor inside and out, the expense is what I'm worried about at this point.

It looks like all the head bolts are within spec like you mentioned at least.

Thanks for the help as well, I think you nailed the diagnosis right from the get-go with the turbo seals just being an early indication of other problems.
You are an opinionated SOB sometimes, but you do know your stuff.


Now let me know if I am pushing that injection pump out the right way and I'll flip this motor over to get the pistons out, want to see what the #1 looks like.


KR

 

[ForealBoreal]

Bummer
Time for either sleeving it or slightly bigger pistons.
I am curious to know your cost breakdown when you rebuild it if I have to do one in the future.

 

[Dougal]

Thanks for the help as well, I think you nailed the diagnosis right from the get-go with the turbo seals just being an early indication of other problems.
You are an opinionated SOB sometimes, but you do know your stuff.

Thanks for the feedback, happy to help any time I can. I'm perfectly happy being opinionated.

Now let me know if I am pushing that injection pump out the right way and I'll flip this motor over to get the pistons out, want to see what the #1 looks like.


KR

But I'm no help at all with that.

 

[Doorslammer]

the puller is set-up correctly, if it doesnt pop with a bit of force on it, give the end of the puller a hit with a hammer.
also dont forget the bolt underneath the pump if you havent all ready removed it!

 

[Tapage]

one afternoon to pull your engine you alone .? damn .. I'm definitely an slow worker ..

 

[kevinmrowland]

Bummer
Time for either sleeving it or slightly bigger pistons.
I am curious to know your cost breakdown when you rebuild it if I have to do one in the future.

It is so subtle that it might even hone out, but if I have to step up a bore all the pistons are still size number "2" spec, so I should be able to step up to #3 if needed.

Thanks for the feedback, happy to help any time I can. I'm perfectly happy being opinionated.

It takes one to know one Dougal.
I appreciate the time you've taken to help thus far.

the puller is set-up correctly, if it doesn't pop with a bit of force on it, give the end of the puller a hit with a hammer.
also don't forget the bolt underneath the pump if you haven't all ready removed it!

Thanks, done and done. The pump is completely lose, the taper shaft just does not want to pop out of that gear collar. I have a soldering iron in one of the threaded holes on the collar now, hoping that with a bit of heat it will let the puller tap the shaft out.

one afternoon to pull your engine you alone .? damn .. I'm definitely an slow worker ..

I only put it all back in 4 months ago, so it's still fresh in my mind.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Welp, thar she be:

About the only thing I have left to remove are the pre-cups.
Any ideas on that? I was thinking about drilling out the center of them and using a pilot bearing puller, anyone know how to get the durn things out of there?






..

 

[kevinmrowland]

This is what ending up getting the injection pump out, left the soldering iron in the hole for a hour or so and was able to push the pump out with ease.

This is kinda cool, it's an internal oil cooler radiator:

Overall it's a very impressive engine, really well designed, and built to be worked on.

 

[kevinmrowland]

On to the culprit, the #one cylinder.


This is the bottom of the head, you can compare the #1 cylinder to the #2 which was still in good shape.

After cleaning the gunk off the top of the #1 piston, I noticed something really strange (to me anyway):

WTF?

I was really anxious to get the piston out and take a look at it from the side, here is that same spot:

You can see the chunk of cracked piston that was still sitting in place, and the lower ring was broken into 4 pieces.

This is the smaller deformation on the 180* opposite side of the piston:

Does anyone have any experience with deformations like this?
I've taken apart a fair number of motors (not HZs) but oddly enough the pistons themselves have always been in good shape.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Now on to the bigger question, where do I get the parts?

Going to need the better part of a full rebuild kit, and now it looks like I'll need 6 new oversized pistons as well.



KR

 

[Dougal]

So I've never been in a 1HZ either. But that's the exhaust port adjacent to your scorch mark on the top of the piston?
I see thermal damage, the hottest part in the cylinder is the wall by the exhaust port and this is where you have damage.

In a nutshell, you've melted a piston. I suspect this softening and localised melting is accompanied by the ring-lands softening, your rings breaking and then the chunk coming out lower.
I'd also say it happened to #1 because that cylinder is getting the least air of all 6. #6 will be getting similar amounts of air, how does it look?

How hot was your EGT gauge reading? If it never reads hot then I'd say for some reason it's not reading the hottest part of the gas flow.

 

[yooper]

Subscribed.

I came to this thread to ask where you are getting the parts.

I think my 1HZ is going to need at least a top end refurb...it will probably get opened this week...