Advice for FJ60 Test Drive (1 Viewer)

[GoatWorthy]

Hey there! First post... new guy and stoked to find this forum. I was first introduced to land cruiser while in the middle east with the military and fell in love with them. Most were mid nineties prada models. Well my wife loves the FJ60 and 62 from 86-89. I am looking into buying one I found for sale 4.5 hours out and have done as much research as I can. I wanted to bounce what I have off you guys for any input or things I am missing that should be on there.

The land cruiser is a FJ60 with 155K original miles. It's the diesel with a manual transmission and entirely stock. Outside and inside indicate that it's been taken care of or at least not offroaded or lived hard. I am planning to go look it over this upcoming weekend and here is my checklist:

1) Seals - main ones being oil pan seal, x-fer case, head gasket, gear box and rear main seal
2) Fluids - Brake, oil, coolant, x-msn, x-fer case and differentials
3) Front knuckles - sledge in there
4) Carburetor - No sputtering, stalling, roughness or hesitation. It's my understanding if the choke must remain out then it might be an EGR problem. If so what is the cost of replacing the EGR?
5) Brakes - I came across one posting about how a brake job requires the hubs to be re-packed... is that correct and cost of a brake job?
6) I researched less than 200K miles the vacuum hoses were good. Anyway to check them?
7) 4WD - checking high and low and checking that the manual lock works.

Other than that checking everything over like normal, but that was the more detailed list. I also plan to ask who is mechanic or shop has been to follow up with them about any questions.

Fully tracking its age and that it will need care to remain reliable, but the intent is my wife wants it as her daily driver - she works about 10 minutes down the road so nothing excessive, but I want to make sure I am getting something as reliable as I can for a 30 year old truck.

Thanks for any and all advice! Really hoping this works out and we get our first land cruiser!

 

[GoatWorthy]

Oh forgot to mention... Only thing is the A/C is listed as not working, but all components there. Worse case scenario in getting that fixed (i.e. probability and cost)?

 

[OSS]

Greetings and welcome to the Land Cruiser universe.
If the cruiser you're interested in is an FJ60, the original engine was a 2F running on gasoline. Diesel powered cruisers were sold outside of the USA and they are called HJ60.

So if the cruiser you're interested in really does have a Toyota diesel in it, it got imported into the USA later in life by a previous owner.

Only the gasoline engines have an EGR system. The diesels don't.

At this late stage in the game, (30+ year old vehicle) the MOST important thing to look for is swelling, chunky, flakey rust on the body and especially the frame. An orange patina of light surface rust isn't an issue, but deep structural compromising rust should be a deal breaker ... aka don't buy.

If I were to buy another FJ60 today, (I owned mine for 30 years) I'd primarily be interested in a really clean, smooth & rust free body and a minimal rust impacted frame. I'd really be interested in it having a good condition dash that wasn't all cracked and the interior in pretty good shape.

As for the engine, I'd just drive it and listen to it. Especially at idle. And take careful note on how relatively peppy it was. The stock Toyota engines are not very powerful and the vehicle accelerates slower than any other car on the road even when it was brand new, so be prepared to be underwhelmed how fast it gets up to speed.

If the engine felt pretty good and smooth and there weren't any weird transmission noises and the experience was a good one- and I liked how it looked - I'd buy it.

But be prepared to put some time & energy into it after you get it giving it a full tune up.
Also know that if you have to smog test it, that will always be a nail biter every two years

 

[Gretsch]

Rust is the devil on these beasts. In addition to your list, I would check absolutely everywhere for rust. Pull back carpets anywhere you can. As @OSS mentions, deep rust is a deal killer for me. Too many rust free examples to mess with rust IMHO. You will find plenty to spend money on on these beasts to worry about rust. None of them are totally rust free. But some are much better than others. Looking past the rust is tempting, especially on a low mileage example like you are talking about. But if its rusty and pitted, you either get a great deal or walk.

On the brakes, the rotors are pressed onto the hub using the wheel studs. To get new rotors on there, you need to press out the wheel studs put the new rotor on, and press the studs back onto the hub through the rotor. Rotor goes sort of on back of the hub and wheel studs press through the rotor into the hub if that makes sense. To do that you have to take the hub off anyway, so you might as well repack and/or replace the bearings while you are there which is why I think most folks just make it a requirement. If you see evidence of significant sludge on the knuckles, you would prolly want to plan a knuckle rebuild down the road, and can do the brakes as part of that work to avoid taking all that stuff off multiple times. I would suggest you get your hands dirty. I would go broke if I did not do the work myself on mine. Toyota Manuals are available on the forum here.

Sounds like a super clean truck. Congrats on finding one like that. Welcome to the madness. HTH.

 

[FJACS]

We got the diesels in Canada. Virginia is only a 10 hour drive. You should figure out if the diesel was swapped, or if it was imported and where from. If Canada really go over it for rust and previous rust repairs.

 

[goldman]

Hey there! First post... new guy and stoked to find this forum. I was first introduced to land cruiser while in the middle east with the military and fell in love with them. Most were mid nineties prada models. Well my wife loves the FJ60 and 62 from 86-89. I am looking into buying one I found for sale 4.5 hours out and have done as much research as I can. I wanted to bounce what I have off you guys for any input or things I am missing that should be on there.

The land cruiser is a FJ60 with 155K original miles. It's the diesel with a manual transmission and entirely stock. Outside and inside indicate that it's been taken care of or at least not offroaded or lived hard. I am planning to go look it over this upcoming weekend and here is my checklist:

1) Seals - main ones being oil pan seal, x-fer case, head gasket, gear box and rear main seal
2) Fluids - Brake, oil, coolant, x-msn, x-fer case and differentials
3) Front knuckles - sledge in there
4) Carburetor - No sputtering, stalling, roughness or hesitation. It's my understanding if the choke must remain out then it might be an EGR problem. If so what is the cost of replacing the EGR?
5) Brakes - I came across one posting about how a brake job requires the hubs to be re-packed... is that correct and cost of a brake job?
6) I researched less than 200K miles the vacuum hoses were good. Anyway to check them?
7) 4WD - checking high and low and checking that the manual lock works.

Other than that checking everything over like normal, but that was the more detailed list. I also plan to ask who is mechanic or shop has been to follow up with them about any questions.

Fully tracking its age and that it will need care to remain reliable, but the intent is my wife wants it as her daily driver - she works about 10 minutes down the road so nothing excessive, but I want to make sure I am getting something as reliable as I can for a 30 year old truck.

Thanks for any and all advice! Really hoping this works out and we get our first land cruiser!

1) Seals will all be leaky to some extent.
2) Fluids, you can check the brake, clutch, coolant, power steering, oil easily, to check the transmission and transfer case you will need a breaker bar and a 25mm socket (at least I think that's right) you'll need to drop the skid plate. Probably not needed on a test drive. The differentials use the same socket and if they haven't been opened up in a while they will also need a breaker bar.
3) Front knuckles - your not going to be opening those up on a test drive to check, you can look on the backside on the wipers and see if you see gear lube (thats likely coming from the diff and will indicate a rebuild needs to happen).
4) Carb - you are commenting more on the gas 2f not the diesel here.
5) Brakes - replacing pads will not require rebuilding the hubs. Replacing or turning the front rotors will require redoing or repacking the front hubs.
6) Vacuum hoses - also if its a diesel its not the same as the 2f.
7) Id check and make sure it engages in 4H, 4L and check the locking hubs.
8) AC - worst case is that the compressor is dead, remained compressors are about 300 dollars, condensers are about 120, there are known leaks in the evaporator. Doing the work yourself its not bad but having an AC shop replacing these parts can cost a couple grand.


The systems that you mention are all good points but Id probably just ask the seller before driving 4.5 hours, when these things have been worked on. If the answer is never, then you need to either make sure you are ready to get your hands dirty or be ready to pay someone else to fix those things.

As most posted above, call and ask the seller the questions you posted. And if your comfortable with those things then drive up there and look for rust. Thats the deal breaker.

 

[GoatWorthy]

Thanks for all those constructive responses... Much appreciated

Hopefully I catch everything here.

Rust is my biggest concern and where I will definitely focus the majority of my attention. Thanks for highlighting that. The truck is a Canadian import (just found that out a few hours ago). With that said the rust popped up on my radar as a much larger concern. Before I thought it was a southern truck, but I will ask if he knows when it was imported and hopefully it wasn't exposed to the salted roads for too long.

I set up a time to call him tomorrow evening. Asking him all those questions is exactly what I was planning to do, but I wanted to reach out to consolidate/finalize those questions before making the decision to head out and see it. Sounds like the list hit the majority of it.

Thanks for the clarification on the brakes vs rotor replacements requiring the packing etc... Good to know on the A/C repair being in the few thousands as well - potentially. I will get more details about that tomorrow and post my findings.

I can definitely see this becoming an addiction. Ha.

Again, appreciate the input. Really hoping this one works out as it's really what I was wanting. Pre '88 for the round headlights, factory diesel, manual transmission, all stock/OEM and clean throughout - from the pictures anyway. Would be a great base to start with.

I'll let y'all know what happens

 

[Nostradamus]

Rust is way more of a long term challenge than any mechanical issues. I'd much rather rebuild any part of the drive train than deal with rust, which is why I searched a long time, and paid a premium for an 85 FJ60 from the southwest - rust...free...worth every penny IMHO

 

[FJACS]

Not all of Canada uses road salt, but still pay close attention to the frame and underbody.

Is it a BJ60 or HZ60? You should read up on each and go in knowing what you’re looking at.

 

[GoatWorthy]

Did some forum searching. Must be a BJ60 as it's 4 cyclinders.

Also saw one is 12v and another 24v, but the post didn't clarify which.

Another post said the 4 cylinder was known for not lasting as long. Any experience out there to substantiate or elaborate?

Last question. Tracking they'll be slow to accelerate and slow top end. Would y'all say 60 is reasonable though and any options to improve that? I've read about the turbos but see that that causes stress potentially killing your engine quicker.

If I do go through with this one I'd like to do a Cummings conversion with upgraded transmission - maybe. More research to follow. Is this year/model amenable to that?

 

[Vincenzo]

If I do go through with this one I'd like to do a Cummings conversion with upgraded transmission - maybe. More research to follow. Is this year/model amenable to that?

Any of the FJ60/62's can accommodate a Cummins. Mine (from PO) currently has a 4BTA/Ranger torque splitter/factory 4 spd/factor t-case. Just be prepared for an SOA as these engines are tall.

 

[RredFJ40]

Whoa, this just went from clean stock rig for the wife to Cummins conversion really quickly

 

[Devils Paw 80]

Did some forum searching. Must be a BJ60 as it's 4 cyclinders.

Also saw one is 12v and another 24v, but the post didn't clarify which.

Another post said the 4 cylinder was known for not lasting as long. Any experience out there to substantiate or elaborate?

Last question. Tracking they'll be slow to accelerate and slow top end. Would y'all say 60 is reasonable though and any options to improve that? I've read about the turbos but see that that causes stress potentially killing your engine quicker.

If I do go through with this one I'd like to do a Cummings conversion with upgraded transmission - maybe. More research to follow. Is this year/model amenable to that?

3B engine is typically quite durable but a complete dog with less than 100 hp. Yes, 60 is attainable but it will take quite awhile to get there.
If it really has only 155K miles and runs well I would forget about the Cummins. I believe that would require a lift too. Does your wife want to drive a lifted, noisy truck? Probably not. 3B doesn't make a lot of noise. It will most likely be a 24V rig, which is a bit more of a hassle, naturally. My '85 BJ70 was 12V, but after that year they went to 24V.

As others have said, check the rust. 60 series bodies are prone to it. Even worse, potentially, is frame rust on an East coast rig. Check inner frame rails carefully, drop spare tire if it's still in stock location for a thorough look.

 

[GoatWorthy]

Whoa, this just went from clean stock rig for the wife to Cummins conversion really quickly

Hahaha! I told y'all I see how this can be addictive!

Ok I'll drop that tire. Good pointer...

Oh what does SOA mean in regards to a Cummings conversion?

 

[diesellibrarian]

SOA = "Spring Over Axle" = moving the axles under the leaf springs to make room for the deep oil pan on the Cummins.

 

[diesellibrarian]

If you are looking seriously at an engine swap, a 13B-T might be a better option than the Cummins. It is the direct injection, turbo-charged version of the 3B, and it moves you up to a whopping 120 hp! (edited to add: you'd need to find a half-cut or imported engine. Also not sure if the 13B-T requires substantially different electronics).

The 3B is a remarkably durable engine, but as with all used cars, everything will depend on how well it's been maintained throughout the vehicle's history.

 

[gregnash]

Something also to note.. most SOA conversion will require a sizeable lift. Like we are talking 4"+ from the stock height. So unless your wife is 5'10" or taller and doesn't mind jumping to get in, well yeah something else to consider.

As other have said, Rust, Rust, aaaaaannnnndddddd RUST. Keep an eye on that stuff and dont let it get out of hand. What looks like a small area with a couple bubbles in the paint really is anywhere from golf ball sized to softball sized below (ask my how I know). Think the the FAQs area there is a pretty good list of common places to check for rust. When you go to see it, take a magnet with you and check those areas (magnets will not stick to bondo or fiberglass so if you stick to a place that should be metal and it doesn't stick, then that is something to highly note).

The 3B can be a good engine from what I have read/seen however it DOES have a Turbo kit that can be found to add a few more ponies to the list. But with that comes the obvious issue of the fact that the diesel variants were not offered in the USA, thus the availability of parts is pretty minimal or will take some forethought and stock piling. As a few others have touched on, there are two electrical variants as well, 12v vs. 24v, if you are not comfortable with electrical then this is something else to take into consideration.

If an engine/drivetrain swap is in the cards then there really is no particular reason to look at one vs. the other (diesel vs. gas). Then it comes down to amenities and body styling (FJ60 vs FJ62) and other small things. Most common swap, keeping as close to stock-ish looks and vehicle height, is an LS swap. Plenty of info on that, diesel is another beast all together with some being very successful at it but it is less common. Seems the new diesel swap is people throwing in the new R2.8 in there with a 5 speed (NV4500).

 

[GoatWorthy]

SOA = "Spring Over Axle" = moving the axles under the leaf springs to make room for the deep oil pan on the Cummins.

Ahhhh... makes sense now.

The conversion isn't something for the immediate, more of knowing my options down the road so I don't buy something that I can't do what we would want in say 10 years. With that said that is how I am approaching this first cruiser purchase. We both want it to be a vehicle we have for many years including a planned frame off restoration in 5-10 years if that is necessary to keep it a reliable daily driver.

Just had a good conversation with the owner annnnnnddddddd rust came up. He bought it in 2018 from an import guy. Seems to have been a 1 owner car in canada. Paperwork shows it had the undercarriage option spray done, but he said there is rust. Most notably with the rocker panels. Some cut out and welded over spots and some bondo. He is sending me pictures of the worst areas later on before I decide to drive out and look.

A/C appears to work but no cold air. He said it turns on and blows and the blue light even illuminates just no cold air. I asked and he doesn't think it has the R134a conversion so I would look into doing that.

It's a 24v system... I have to do some research on that to figure out the full effects of that to me.

So other than the rust and A/C sounds like a great truck. I asked for the name of his mechanic who is a diesel cruiser specialist. Plan to call them if I continue... He had no issues with that as he said his mechanic said it is one of the best running diesels he has seen so far.

So I guess my question to the experience out there is: If I plan to do a frame off in say 5-10 years does that alter acceptable rust limits? Again I want to buy this for my wife in the long haul as I know she will keep it until she is dead - she loves these things that much. And if she doesn't then I will cause these things are the best since sliced bread. Ha...

Oh and she is 5'11" so I will be able to get away with the lift! HAHAHA

 

[FJACS]

I think you should keep looking. I don’t mind buying rust, but I don’t like to buy other people’s rust repairs. There’s enough other trucks on offer to skip the ones with bondo and patched up rockers.

Sigfrid & Sons (no affiliation) has a couple of trucks for sale right now. One has some rust, but it’s an original paint truck. Honest rust... if you know what I mean. https://sigfridsandsons.com/product/1984-toyota-land-cruiser-fj60-1-owner-till-2016-99-2-original/

 

[GoatWorthy]

FJACS - Thanks so much for that link... I need to start finding those resources.

After looking around more and taking in everything learned I agree about holding out with what I have in mind. There's no rush on my end and what is most important to me is to have a solid frame on which to begin.

It will probably cost more, but I am going to expand my search out to AZ and NM etc... looking in those dry climates. I really liked a lot on that site and all were less than 10K with clean frames... Don't mind putting in the money to make them mechanically sound at all.

Really appreciate all the input and friendliness on this forum. Been an awesome learning curve and have a pretty good idea of what exactly I am looking for. Now the waiting game...