Adding coolant temp gauge? (1 Viewer)

[landtank]

200 posts?

are you guys just having fun and trying to have fun forever or are you actually trying to get this job done?

I hate this gauge as much as the other guy, so tell us what to do already!

I put in a digital display of temp in 5 mins! (so OK, it's flopping around the cabin but it adds a masculine touch to things... )

I hear you Eric. This mod seems to be taking the exactness to the extreme. I mean, all we have is a sweep guage with a red mark at one end to work with. It's not like there are actual numbers on there and we need to know within a few degrees what is going on. For me a quick simple mod that gets rid of the dead spot and centers the needle as normal is just about perfect.

I'll be ordering the 110 and if that gets me in the middle then I'm probably done. I'll soon recognise when my truck is starting to get hot and I think that is all you can ask for with this guage.

And this isn't a put down Raven as you have put a tremendous amount of work into this. It's just that if I wanted a more acurate read on my temp then I'd add a real guage.

I'll post back when the new resistor arrives and what the reading are.

 

[RavenTai]

I am having fun, it is nice to take a well made but poor performing OEM part and make it right for only a few $$, but no I don’t want it to go on forever. We are making good progress.

I think we have the center point just about figured out on the 95-97 and we got real world results in Rick's 96, the 93-94 may be the same or it may not be, I will know when Semlin's gauge gets here. The 93/94 will go much quicker as the frame work is already there just need to drop in any different values and then test the results. 91/92 guys so far have not had a champion to push it through, no plans as of right now.

Only things that are left are figuring out the diode replacement resistor (if needed), confirming repeatability of the different OEM components and writing the modification instructions.

 

[e9999]

I am having fun, it is nice to take a well made but poor performing OEM part and make it right for only a few $$, but no I don’t want it to go on forever. We are making good progress.

I think we have the center point just about figured out on the 95-97 and we got real world results in Rick's 96, the 93-94 may be the same or it may not be, I will know when Semlin's gauge gets here. The 93/94 will go much quicker as the frame work is already there just need to drop in any different values and then test the results. 91/92 guys so far have not had a champion to push it through, no plans as of right now.

Only things that are left are figuring out the diode replacement resistor (if needed), confirming repeatability of the different OEM components and writing the modification instructions.

will be nice to have this all figured out. Nice job!

(You might want to add some insight into how difficult it would be to do this mod for folks who haven't opened up their cluster yet and who don't know jack about electronics...)

 

[tiorio]

Good freakin work boys!

 

[RavenTai]

I hear you Eric. This mod seems to be taking the exactness to the extreme. I mean, all we have is a sweep guage with a red mark at one end to work with. It's not like there are actual numbers on there and we need to know within a few degrees what is going on. For me a quick simple mod that gets rid of the dead spot and centers the needle as normal is just about perfect.

I'll be ordering the 110 and if that gets me in the middle then I'm probably done. I'll soon recognise when my truck is starting to get hot and I think that is all you can ask for with this guage.

And this isn't a put down Raven as you have put a tremendous amount of work into this. It's just that if I wanted a more acurate read on my temp then I'd add a real guage.

I'll post back when the new resistor arrives and what the reading are.

I have gone a bit overboard but when I started out that is all I wanted was a gauge that moves and I will get used to it on a relative basis like you said, but I found it may have the potential for quite good accuracy, this is going to be applied to a lot of trucks by a lot of people someone at some point someone is going to be running up to a desert pass and will want to know what that red line they are hitting means.

 

[RavenTai]

will be nice to have this all figured out. Nice job!

(You might want to add some insight into how difficult it would be to do this mod for folks who haven't opened up their cluster yet and who don't know jack about electronics...)

Removing the cluster for the first time is maybe 1.5 , opening the cluster is easy but care must be taken as it is more fragile than most parts the average mudder works with, leave the BFH in your tool box.

Doing the mod is straight foreword you do not need to know jack about electronics , just order the parts and follow the directions. One skill some mudders may not have is soldering, this one is learnable in an hour or two, I'll be linking to some good online tutorials.


When it is done there will be a separate thread with all you need to know in it.

 

[e9999]

Removing the cluster for the first time is maybe 1.5 , opening the cluster is easy but care must be taken as it is more fragile than most parts the average mudder works with, leave the BFH in your tool box.

Doing the mod is straight foreword you do not need to know jack about electronics , just order the parts and follow the directions. One skill some mudders may not have is soldering, this one is learnable in an hour or two, I'll be linking to some good online tutorials.


When it is done there will be a separate thread with all you need to know in it.

you my friend are well on your way to the Mudder Hall of Fame!

 

[semlin]

Patience guys,we are halfway there and these posts are not making up any more bandwidth than Junk's insults you are not likely to have a testbed available in the future so it is worth taking advantage to calibrate the mod. If you know what a point on the gauge signifies it is that much more useful. Also RT is obviously not doing this full time.

of course this will be a double mod since you can fix your "D" light at the same time

 

[MoJ]

I hadn't had the time to go through this thread until today. Just wanted to say WOW. This is good stuff. Thanks!

 

[Beowulf]

Raven and Simon,

Good work and I believe the accurate calibration is important to fully document the OEM gauge and to give someone the data needed to create a template with numbers that could be applied to the gauge for those that want it.

-B-

 

[RavenTai]

cooked the new thermistor this morning, I have not taken the data from the camera and put it on a spread sheet yet but from comparing with a print out of the used thermistor during the cook it is within a few tenths of an OHM between 165F and 258F

that is pretty impressive on Nippon Denso's part that a 10 year old used part of unkown use and storage and a new one right out of the wrapper from Dan agree perfectly.

as for why my results do not match others I do not know. perhapse diffrent methods yield diffrent results,


Thanks -B-, long time no see,

 

[Rookie2]

FWIW, I can appreciate the time and thoroughness with which you are approaching this. There's an opportunity here to be able to document and verify the complete behavior of this guage and circuit, let alone the satisfaction of being able to confirm what is on paper with a real world test. As much as you know about electronics, I'm sure you can say you've learned some things by putting together this test. I think alot of us have, just by following along.

My truck's been without a properly reading temp. gauge for 8 years..., another couple weeks isn't going to hurt anything.

Keep up the good work!

Rookie2

 

[landtank]

I had a nice drive today, basically 2.5 hours each way and have some insight as to how my guage is responding.

One of the first things I noticed was that during the drive I needed to make a stop for some supplies. The time in the store was about 15 minutes and when I restarted the trcuk the temp guage read a little hot, about 1.5~2 needle widths above horizontal (remember my guage now sits 1 NW below horizontal). This was a nice surprise as I would fully expect the coolant to warm while sitting just after a long run.

The second thing I noticed is that the guage seems to fluctuate with the systems voltage. Idling is different than driving and driving with lights seems to be yet different than just driving. I checked this out by driving home tonight for about 15 minutes and then put on my lights. I saw the temp needle slowly start to move. If this is indeed do to voltage fluctuations then I think that a small dead spot would be good. Just something to eliminate the constant little changes that I'm seeing and basically that dead range would be considered normal operating temps.

I just got confirmation that my 110 ohm resistor is on it's way, but RavenTai if you would know or have a guess to what ZDiode value would work with my current 100 ohm resisitor to help center it and maybe provide that small dead spot, I might be able to locate one locally and since I have tommorrow off I could get it and could install and evalute it.

I'm just assuming here that the ZDiode is the right course of action to settle down the needle. Let me know if it's not. But having it display temperature variences which are from voltage fluctuations kind of takes the accuracy out of it.

 

[cruiserdan]

I see that same "heat-soak" on my Isspro when I shut down and the re-start after a few minutes. It doesn't take long to drop back down after the vehicle gets going. The Isspro does not appear to be affected by voltage variations. The gauge reacts very quickly to temperature changes and does not appear to be dampened.

D-

 

[Beowulf]

I see that same "heat-soak" on my Isspro

Same with the Greddy. "Heat-soak" (sometimes a LOT) when shut off while hot and no fluctuation with lights or any other accessory. Very linear and needle movements are only related to coolant temps as far as I can tell.

-B-

 

[cary]

Just as a data point, my 1982 BMW 320i had a non padded temperature guage and it would move a couple of needle widths depending on how many accessories were on. In fact as it got older, the blinkers would cause the guage to twitch slightly.

 

[e9999]

in the engineering world, a gauge that would fluctuate based on available voltage would be a thought of as "less than desirable" if one were to try to stay polite...

 

[semlin]

I know you engineers like to build in a lot redundancy in your work for safety reasons but a backup post in case we miss the first one seems like overkill

I suppose this problem may be noticable on any 80 until the engine reaches normal op temp.
we know from the tests that voltage is going to affect needle response. either we regulate the voltage somehow, or we may have to live with it.

maybe a power line to the gauge run right from the battery with a relay switched by the current power source would limit the effect?

 

[landtank]

I suppose this problem may be noticable on any 80 until the engine reaches normal op temp

I'm thinking that 15 minutes at 75 mph and I'm probably there.

 

[RavenTai]

But having it display temperature variences which are from voltage fluctuations kind of takes the accuracy out of it.

Agreed,

With the 75 ohm resistor I have noted needle variations near the extremes with changes in source voltage but around the balance point it seams stable, at the extremes the variation was approximately 1NW away from center for every volt increase in source voltage.

my driving voltage seams stable despite load, it can drop down to as low as battery voltage at idle especially with headlights, brake lights, radio, AC etc on

I was hoping everybody’s driving voltage would be stable, this could be a problem,

Any idea how much movement and or how much voltage change?

I'll have to get back to you on the Zener diode, but a quick estimation the forward volt drop of .7 volts will be roughly 30 degrees before you even add in any reverse break over, that may be to much of a dead range for your liking (woudl be for me) I am not sure but I think there may be a minimum for reverse break over, there are other kinds of diodes that have lower forward volt drops, GERMANIUM DIODES have .3v fopreward volt drop plus whatever for reverse break over not sure they are made into zener diodes or not, this would take some digging.


I got in the resistors today, going to try the 110 and jumper cook it and see what happens.