My Conclusion at This Point (very lengthy!)
I run the stock 275/70 16 on stock rims Blizzack DMZ3. The winter conditions you describe is what I see at Steamboat Ice Track for over 15 years now.
Very useful answer, and generally, I have learned a lot from your posts, those of IdahoDoug, Nay, MTNRAT, turbocruiser, jasonmt and others. This has been an incredibly articulate, in-depth, insightful and useful thread, and for this reason I vote that
it should become a sticky!
In any case, what seems to transpire or should I say, distill of late from these posts, is that it is fine to run "wide" tires for
general winter use.
The reason why I never liked wide is that the worst driving conditions we have are those in which we 'float' in the snow or should I say, that heavy, wet salty mess we call slush (and is not that unlike mud!).
We have those conditions for several hours after each snow storm and it gets worse on highways as the first thing that is done is to salt them heavy. As a result even good ice tires tend to make the vehicle float on the muck.
On secondary roads with less traffic we tend to get sand and gravel and the stuff is drier. As a result, driving is more pleasant with tires that give in more gradually for a much more controlled ride.
In any of those two conditions, wide winter tires are, in my experience, no better than thin all seasons,
even studded. As a matter of fact, when I got my first "winter" tires way back on my first car, they were no better than the summer Michelins. They were only better in deep, packed snow. I always wondered why Michelin was seemingly the only manufacturer that siped its tires at the time. Seems almost like they invented that process (along with Radial construction).
The slushy, heavy snow conditions are the main reasons why I don't trust wide tires. In my over 30 years of driving experience, these have been the conditions where I have had the closest calls and have seen the most accidents.
Now, I agree that black ice or that thin film of slick ice stuff that build up at intersections is really nasty. Fortunately as I live in the countryside, we don't have much of that, but when I get into town, this becomes an issue. I've been hit a few times in the back by people with lesser tires than I (one of the reasons I don't like my JDM spare tire carrier - seen vehicles completely smashed in the back BY THE SPARE). For that reason, I tend to prefer studded tires.
However, no matter what, and I have found that from my experience and that of my friends and relatives, no matter how good tires are (I remember a case where my sister claimed her tires were fantastic), in slick conditions such as those that happen a few times a year, when we have rain that falls on compacted snow, not even studs will allow you to do anything more than simply move on the flat. THAT is chain territory!!! Studded tires are OK and help a bit, but do not add that much more traction to a tire. You need spikes for those conditions!!!
I am willing to consider the Blizzaks, as they seem to grab the best in wet and icy conditions. But I cannot understand why I should fork good money for a tire than is essentially just half of a winter tire. It's a lot to pay for limited usage. Considering our winters last a good 5 months, it becomes expensive real fast.
The Nokians have proven themselves in my case, but indeed, they don't grip that great at least in the LT version. The SUV version is substantially better, but it is not available in a thin tire (235/85R16) like the Blizzak is. But it is durable and studdable and gives great all-around winter performance in 235 width on the 80 (but it is not as grippy on the lighter 60 series).
IdahoDoug swears by the X-Ice. Great, but what are his winter conditions? City or countryside? Granted, as a dedicated winter tire with lots of sipes, they are going to be great in light snow and good on ice and will probably last a long time as well. But this tire is not available in a tall and narrow either, they are not studdable and the tread depth is ridiculously shallow (12/32”).
jasonmt loves his narrow LT Nokians. But his vehicle is also almost 50% heavier than the 80 series Landcruiser. No wonder he dislikes the Blizzaks, which are known to be softer plus the fact he was comparing a wide P type tire to a narrow LT, a completely different tire in both compounds AND construction! I wonder how he would have fared with the Blizzak in the same exact type and size...
Nay loves his Trxus. Not surprising it should work well in winter, as it's been said it has a soft rubber tread. Plus it got lugs and sipes. Almost an ideal tire! But on DD doing 85% of driving on the highway? Hmmm... Not sure it would last long, and fuel consumption is probably going to suffer as well. Worth a consideration, if it was studdable and had more of an ice tread pattern in the center, with its deep tread depth it could be ideal (almost ¾” in our sizes, IIRC), as it's also available in tall and narrow.
SUMOTOY, you really make a convincing pitch for the Blizzak in 265/75R16 (or was it 270/70R16?) and the importance of having a lower profile to prevent tread rollover (and loss of traction). However, discounting the higher pressure on the road that a thin tire provides is questionable IMO, as I have seen the difference the same tire can make on my 60 as compared to my 80, which is easily 10% heavier if not more. In fact, under identical conditions (4 wheel drive and tires inflated at the exact same pressure), I found that the 80 had significantly better grip on the road than the 60 ever had, and I did notice that that the tire felt 'softer' on the 80 as it did on the 60. So to summarize, the tire you like may be a great all around choice, but 265 or 270 is way too wide IMO. I do admit that it will stay flat better than a 235/85, so ideally, I would prefer a 235/70, but that would mean, getting 18 inch or taller rims, and then we get into limited availability (=real expensive) territory. So getting a tall tire will presumably give lesser lateral response (cornering). But as I rarely take corners real fast (the LC with its high center of gravity is not really designed for that anyway), I don't see that as a real issue. So I'm still not convinced the Blizzaks
in that size are suitable, nor am I really enthusiastic with the idea of replacing tires every two winters.
I'm still of the feeling that with lockers (even just a CDL), your biggest problem on the 80 is high center, not a traction problem in the snow, running a dedicated snow. So then you start looking at the danger zone, which is to me standing water and black ice.
As I stated previously, I cannot see a tall and narrow tire as being more of a problem rather than an advantage in my driving conditions. I'd rather have good longitudinal control, pizza-cutting through the slush, rather than maintaining control in high speed cornering, although it would be great to have that advantage. But at what cost, and are 32 inch tires available that offer a low profile narrow tread such as 235/75 or lower? That would require at least an 18-inch and preferably a 20-inch rim! And are such tires even available in winter compounds? I don't think so, at least not at tirerack.com, and probably not in any decent assortment of brands and types!
I tire test as a nature of my work, and my play. I used to do tire comparos for 10years, and post them after Steamboat (audi quattro application with CDL and RDL). A no brainer all around winter tire, for 80 or any other vehicle, is the Blizzack. It's the standard all others pine after, and after 30+k on my DMZ3's, that opinion hasn't changed. Chains and studs and big lugs all have their specific advantages, I just address all around winter tires when I choose mine.
I really do appreciate the time and effort you put into posting here. You are obviously a very knowledgeable and articulate tester and user, and believe me, I truly appreciate your input, and you do make a convincing case for the Blizzaks. It does help a lot!
But like others have said, although it may become a never-ending quest (such is the lot of scientists everywhere) that may paralyse those who have to make a choice, it doesn't hurt to investigate and explore all options and I truly appreciate the knowledgeable input of all those who have posted in this thread. I also appreciate the fact that no one has ridiculed this (seemingly futile at times) quest for the 'absolute best winter tire'...
With all the experience and insight posted here we could probably be able to actually design our own 'best winter tire'...
The problem remains, who would build them for us
