A little competition coming for the FJ... (1 Viewer)
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jfonz said:Interiour looks pretty comfy to me....
and functional...
Though the super cool little outlet the FJC has would be nice....
But Is It Water Proof Like The FJ, The FJ Is 100% Outdoors, It Can Be Spayed With A Jet Spay/ Car Wash Spayer And Mothing Will Be Damaged......
And For Off Road....
It Went Every Where We Went On Hells Revenge Even Up Hells Gate, Uf It Had The 3" Lift Im Sure It Would Of Made It Up The Hot Tub. But This Is Just Me, Say What You Want About The FJ. It Is Still A Toyota the Best There Is, And Is Still Running The Mini Truck Rear Axle ( Dont Belive Me Just Ask A Dealer{If He
Knows His Junk}). And All In All I Love Toyotas, I Hate My Izuzu (Like The Gearing Though). Need To Find Me Another Mini.......
Just My Two Drunken Cents .02
Peace
Full_M3tal said:
Suposidly you can do the same with the wranglers. I know that you could with the TJ, and I'm pretty sure the new ones are the same. They do have carpet but the carpet is removable which is really nice when your cleaning it & the rest of the interior. I would think that making it able to handle water would be kind of a given sense it comes with a removable top.
Full_M3tal said:
I like the FJCruiser. I think there a solid rig. If I didn't like them I would be spending so much time designing stuff for them, though I'm not one of thease people that looks at jeeps as Heeps, or thinks My Toyota, just because it says toyota or Land Cruiser on it magically makes it the offroad king past present & future, Nor do I think jeep puting some silly trail rated badge on the side of there jeeps, then calling them trial rated, makes them any better than any other rig. I think over all its a matter of what you like. I've wheeled IFS for a long time before I got my Jeep, and I liked it and did fine where ever I went. I would think that for most people that get a FJC the IFS is going to do just fine. I would have no hesitations takeing one on most of the trails in Moab. I think people should be proud of there rig & there choice in picking a FJcruiser, but I don't think its going to kill people to admit that jeep has made some good stuff, starting with the TJ, and is now makeing somthing that the market has been wanting for years with the introduction of the new 4dr unimiteds. I'm a land cruiser fan and have been one for years. I have one sitting in my garage right now as a matter of fact & amazingly almost every time I go to moab I'm sandwiched on a trail with a toyota mini truck a 40, and 2 80's. So the land cruisers are great, But IMO, so are the newer Jeeps....
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jfonz said:Suposidly you can do the same with the wranglers. I know that you could with the TJ, and I'm pretty sure the new ones are the same. They do have carpet but the carpet is removable which is really nice when your cleaning it & the rest of the interior. I would think that making it able to handle water would be kind of a given sense it comes with a removable top.
I have a Jeep and often wonder WHY IN THE WORLD they put carpet in it! I removed all of my carpet and had it Rhino lined. Now it is truly water proof. The Jeep (Wrangler) holds up well in water. My Jeep Cherokee (that was traded in for my beautiful Mr. FJ) would short out going through a mud puddle! Unfortunately that happened to me A LOT. That was the only selling point I used with my husband when I decided to buy the FJ. I kept saying, "But, it can go through water!!!" I am very excited about this!
Full_M3tal said:
I am scared if you took a jet spray to the inside of the FJC!
I think the floor is rubber, and seat fabric is 'water resistant' but that's as far as it goes, correct? I would hate to see you short out the entire dash!
gpwpat said:
Pat it just took a little more digging and here it is at 3500lbs...
"Even More Powerful and Fuel-efficient Engine
New on all 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited models is a 3.8-liter overhead valve V-6 engine, with 205 horsepower and 240 lb.-ft. of torque – producing more horsepower and torque than its predecessor with improved fuel economy. A standard six-speed manual transmission or an available four-speed automatic transmission is offered.
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited features a towing capacity of 3,500 lbs. and an optional towing package that includes a 4.10 axle ratio, class III trailer hitch and two front tow hooks. For key diesel markets outside North America, a diesel engine will also be available – for the first time in a Jeep Wrangler – with a five-speed manual transmission. "
http://www.jeep.com/jeep_life/news/autoshow_news/wrangler_unlimited.html
Sure you can pull anything you can get moving but I want to focus on safety and not adding excessive wear and tear. Ratings are decided by the manufacturer based not solely on wheelbase but frame strength, engine capability, radiator cooling and perhaps other factors I can't recall. It's a shame as I have said before becuase I like the looks of the jeep...but I'm going with the FJ...maybe as early as August. Fingers crossed.
i agree with 'sask' on this one. since i was old enough to buy my first truck, a brand new '78 Fj40 , i haven't spent a single year in the last thirty without a Land Cruiser as my primary transportation. Either a 40, 55. or 60. The new FJ is a disappointment, i couldn't take it the places i go. I would probably go to the trouble of importing a 70 series if given the choice, but if my only options were the current
FJ or a Rubicon....... i don't see toyota in the driveway. Thank god they made the old cruisers last 50 years. We'll be lucky if the new FJ lasts ten
FJ or a Rubicon....... i don't see toyota in the driveway. Thank god they made the old cruisers last 50 years. We'll be lucky if the new FJ lasts ten
lcwizard said:
How do you know this?
lcwizard said:
There are still new Land Cruisers sold here in the US. The 100 Series? Why not buy one of them?
johnny4ever said:Why is this INANE argument even happening here? Did I just wake up in some parallel universe where IH8MUD is a Heep forum??
Does anyone ever wonder what it does to an Auto company to basically be an unwanted orphan??? Jeep has changed hands how many times now? And you expect us to believe that because Mercedes has something to do with it, that it makes the Heep any better? Puuuuuulease. Jeeps are great for tooling around town or taking the dogs to the park and pretending that you have a rugged 4 wheel drive. When pretend time is over and you wake up, Toyota is the vehicle of choice to rescue your stuck Jeep.
Ever seen the Hilux video???
P.S. After Market add ons? Who cares how strong the after market is? Strong after market is a good indicator that the stock **** sucks. GM makes crappy cars and they have a HUGE after market product line.
NUFF SAID
J
That's because the Heep Trolls can't get over the FJ envy.
fj40charles
SILVER Star
TexasBadlands said:
Hard to break anything when the largest tire you run in 33"
I don't see a problem running a D44 with 37" tires if you upgrade to aftermarket shafts. Dana 60 IMHO would be overkill for 37" tires.
Did Toyota ever put axles in the same strength category as the D60?
fj cruiser rear axles are nothing to brag about.. They are breaking.
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fj40charles
SILVER Star
TexasBadlands said:
Yep, you have lots experience here.... I think the thread might be sick of you.
fj40charles
SILVER Star
TexasBadlands said:Now this is totally bologna........ Everyone knows Toyota is as strong or stronger than Jeep in the aftermarket add on dept. Look at how fast these new lifts, bumpers etc are popping up, and the FJ is barely on US soil..........
We have all seen the FJ do the Rubicon in stock form with only a change of tire type to all terrains - no lift, special bumpers etc. I for one feel the new FJC is a much better vehicle than the Jeep Rubicon, but to each their own. I would rather have the Cruiser when the chips are down at any rate than a Jeep.
This is an age old Jeep VS Land Cruiser argument. The Jeep guys say this, and the Land Cruiser guys prove that. I've never seen a Jeep rescue a Land Cruiser but I've seen plenty of Land Cruisers rescuing Jeeps.
You need to read this thread. You have never been to the Rubicon so I don't see how you can make that comment.
I have seen plenty of Jeeps rescueing Land Cruisers. It works both ways... Sooner or later, you will have a failure.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=491842&highlight=rubicon
No amount of engineering can make up for bad driving...
All this talk about the FJCruiser didn't do the whole rubicon. They took them through everything except little sluice or something like that. My source? Chris from the Trail Team he's fullnelson on here ask him yourself.
Also nowadays in this capitalism driven world. Where there aint not outbacks to be driven on 24/7( here in the US atleast). No serious need for a extremely tough vehicle (thanks to good roads that go pretty much anywhere). An FJ40 type vehicle will be a failure in today's market. You can see that through the evolution from the 60 to 80 to 100 series.
The FJC is capable of more than 99% of buyers will ever take it through. If you say it's not capable. Well Upstate cruiser's last run to tellico took 5 FJcruisers through tellico ( trails 4, 5 & 6) 2 of them with street tires in the rain. One of them had a 3" lift and, mine was completely bone stock street tires and no lift. Just rockrails., and no it didn't suffer any body damage at all. The other 3 were Dan's sister FJC and the 2 from the FJC trail team. Like robbie said it just takes a little finesse, a little patience and, a little rock stacking.
I also talked to chris from FJCTT about SFA for the FJC. He said he'd rather have the IFS because sometimes they can slide through stuff( becuase of the skid plates) whereas a front Diff would just get stuck or banged up against something.
Also nowadays in this capitalism driven world. Where there aint not outbacks to be driven on 24/7( here in the US atleast). No serious need for a extremely tough vehicle (thanks to good roads that go pretty much anywhere). An FJ40 type vehicle will be a failure in today's market. You can see that through the evolution from the 60 to 80 to 100 series.
The FJC is capable of more than 99% of buyers will ever take it through. If you say it's not capable. Well Upstate cruiser's last run to tellico took 5 FJcruisers through tellico ( trails 4, 5 & 6) 2 of them with street tires in the rain. One of them had a 3" lift and, mine was completely bone stock street tires and no lift. Just rockrails., and no it didn't suffer any body damage at all. The other 3 were Dan's sister FJC and the 2 from the FJC trail team. Like robbie said it just takes a little finesse, a little patience and, a little rock stacking.
I also talked to chris from FJCTT about SFA for the FJC. He said he'd rather have the IFS because sometimes they can slide through stuff( becuase of the skid plates) whereas a front Diff would just get stuck or banged up against something.
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Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I'll post up a bit, since I have done the Rubicon Trail 10+ times and am going through again starting tomorrow. I had the Yellow FJC trail team rig in my group at Rubithon.
Most people going "through" the Rubicon avoid Little Sluice. It has huge truck-sized gnarly boulders that basically can't be done in a normal truck. I take the upper bypass in my 40, then traverse the upper half of the Sluice. The lower part has almost become "buggy only". Most normal street driven trucks will tip over or break in there. Seriously, it's fun to watch, but not for the people who want to drive home. The Big Sluice is more doable, but none of the FJCs went through there as far as I know. I have done that, and broke an axle, despite being careful and cautious.
The FJCs I saw go through at Rubithon, went the same way. They tended to stack more rocks, and take longer, but they ran the whole trail to their credit. This is not to say that the Rubicon was easy for the FJCs-the drivers had to work hard to make it happen. The FJC has too much body and too little clearence to do the trail easily. RObbie, Gustave and those guys are really skilled with these trucks.
The bit about skid plates vs solid axle is just uninformed. The skid plates got trashed at Rubithon, and in fact at Buck Island Lake, one of the trail team rigs was looking for hardware to repair the skid plates that had been installed. The advantage of a solid axle was very appearent. With a solid axle, your wheel and tire will lift the axle, body and undercarriage away from the bad stuff. With IFS, that doesn't happen. Your average guy driving an FJC will be very sorry he attempted the Rubicon Trail. It's doable, but not without significant risk. And yes, a Jeep Rubicon, is far better suited to this trail than an FJC, don't kid yourself.
In the future, I hope to see more FJCs on the Rubicon, just be realistic, and leave the macho posturing at home. Breaking something serious SUCKS, and it happens to all of us. Bring spares!
Most people going "through" the Rubicon avoid Little Sluice. It has huge truck-sized gnarly boulders that basically can't be done in a normal truck. I take the upper bypass in my 40, then traverse the upper half of the Sluice. The lower part has almost become "buggy only". Most normal street driven trucks will tip over or break in there. Seriously, it's fun to watch, but not for the people who want to drive home. The Big Sluice is more doable, but none of the FJCs went through there as far as I know. I have done that, and broke an axle, despite being careful and cautious.
The FJCs I saw go through at Rubithon, went the same way. They tended to stack more rocks, and take longer, but they ran the whole trail to their credit. This is not to say that the Rubicon was easy for the FJCs-the drivers had to work hard to make it happen. The FJC has too much body and too little clearence to do the trail easily. RObbie, Gustave and those guys are really skilled with these trucks.
The bit about skid plates vs solid axle is just uninformed. The skid plates got trashed at Rubithon, and in fact at Buck Island Lake, one of the trail team rigs was looking for hardware to repair the skid plates that had been installed. The advantage of a solid axle was very appearent. With a solid axle, your wheel and tire will lift the axle, body and undercarriage away from the bad stuff. With IFS, that doesn't happen. Your average guy driving an FJC will be very sorry he attempted the Rubicon Trail. It's doable, but not without significant risk. And yes, a Jeep Rubicon, is far better suited to this trail than an FJC, don't kid yourself.
In the future, I hope to see more FJCs on the Rubicon, just be realistic, and leave the macho posturing at home. Breaking something serious SUCKS, and it happens to all of us. Bring spares!
fj40charles
SILVER Star
k_os said:
Are you saying the Jeep TJ is a failure in today's market? I'm sure they sell a bunch of them. I have no doubt that it will out sell the fj cruiser easily. If I wanted a mild to moderate trail ready rig, I'd buy a Rubicon over an fj cruiser any day... I have no doubt that it would handle majority of the trails out there.
As much as I like Toyota, the fj cruiser does not appeal to me for looks or functionality. I know for a fact, that I will not be buying one since it does not suit my needs.
Nobody said the fj cruiser did not do the Rubicon.... Just disputing the fact that it did not do little sluice. Also, they were very slow and stacked lots of rocks.
Tellico has some very easy trails. How do you think it would do on lower and upper #2, guardrail, school bus, and helicopter pad?
IFS has its place. I perfer the durability of a solid front axle.
My opinions are based on my 2 trips to Tellico and 1 trip to Rubicon.
fj40charles
SILVER Star
johnny4ever said:Why is this INANE argument even happening here? Did I just wake up in some parallel universe where IH8MUD is a Heep forum??
Does anyone ever wonder what it does to an Auto company to basically be an unwanted orphan??? Jeep has changed hands how many times now? And you expect us to believe that because Mercedes has something to do with it, that it makes the Heep any better? Puuuuuulease. Jeeps are great for tooling around town or taking the dogs to the park and pretending that you have a rugged 4 wheel drive. When pretend time is over and you wake up, Toyota is the vehicle of choice to rescue your stuck Jeep.
Ever seen the Hilux video???
P.S. After Market add ons? Who cares how strong the after market is? Strong after market is a good indicator that the stock s*** sucks. GM makes crappy cars and they have a HUGE after market product line.
NUFF SAID
J
So you're saying stock Toyota LC axles suck. I see a strong aftermarket for LC axles parts (birfields, axles, knuckles, lockouts, etc.,)
I think having a strong aftermarket is more indicative of high number of vehicles that are sold. If I were a manufacturer, I would certainly want to manufacture a part that has the largest target audience.
I think the discussion came up about jeeps because there are many Toyota fans that just don't see the attraction for the fj cruiser. I feel that Toyota really missed the mark when they designed the fj cruiser. I love my FJ40, but I would buy a jeep Rubicon (if I needed another vehicle) over the fj cruiser for looks, functionality, and ability.
When your pretend time is over, I think you'll find that every vehicle will break down or get stuck sooner or later. Any person who has done some moderate to difficult trails would understand this.
fj40charles said:
I don't think I ever mention jeep in my post.... and about the the rubicon, the actual rubicon not the whole wrangler line will outsell the FJC we'll see about that one. I don't want to say anything because it could really go either way.
And it wont to a lot of people... Just like soccer moms don't buy FJ40s... I'm not calling you a soccer mom just trying to establish a relationship here.fj40charles said:
It's just not for you. I bet you are the kind of person that have a daily driver and a trail rig.
I actually checked your sig after I wrote that and you do.
fj40charles said:
It was my mistake reading. I think I got it mixed up with a diff post
fj40charles said:
I'm not trying to say that the FJC is better or worse than a Jeep, they are 2 different vehicle with 2 diff spectrums or diff size spectrums.
Cruiserdrew said:
I think I never mentioned the Jeep in my post. Like I said above I am not tryint to put down the jeep or put the FJC in a pedastal just trying to voice out my expreriences with it, and you juys jump on me like a fat kid on a cup cake.
And the comment about the IFS... Both have it's pros and cons. If you spend more time on the road IFS if it's a trail rig go for SFA. You give and take.
_______________
but now on my opinion I do think toyota hit the spot "market wise" with the FJC
a rig capable enough for the mojority of it's buyers and confortable enough for soccer moms to buy it. A funky looking to Atract young buyers but still not too crazy looking to scare away more serious/ older buyers.
My whole post was about a market point of view(this one and the last one)
and in my honest opinion I too think the FJC is less capable than a rubicon both in stock form. But I do not want my vehicle to break down every so often. BTW I've never heard of a Stock FJC or a Stock rubicon go through Upper or lower #2 or helicopter. I'm not even sure either of them can do it in the stock form.
my TJ is a 4cyl. It has 35's, has done almost every 4+ trail in moab (except all of pritchett) it has 100K miles on it, and has no major repairs. a few oxygen sensors (under warrenty), and a catalytic converter. and I belive me its been used... Thats about it.... People say jeeps are so unreliable, but I don't know anyone that has had alot of issues with any of the new ones (1999 & newer)..... and because of the merger between Chrysler and Mecedes quality has gone up. Its definely reflected in the new 07' wrangler....
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Not a fat kid on a cupcake (good alliteration!) k_os, just trying to point out that there are pros and cons to everthing. I think I posted in another thread that I would prefer the FJC over a Rubicon or my FJ40 for that matter, for everything but hardcore offroad trails. I think the FJCs will make decent expedition vehicles, but that IFS will prevent them from ever being serious off-roaders. FJCs are cool, they are a good effort by Toyota aimed at the real market, not our self selected group of lunitics on ih8mud. My 17 year old daughter wants one-that tells me that Toyota did their homework and got the styling mostly right. (I still can't stand that front bumper, though) If they had let me design it, it would have 4 real doors, solid, full float axles front and rear, cable lockers, a diesel, no plastic, and look like a 70 series. Unfortunately, no one would buy it. If you think about it, this Jeep prototype that started this discussion comes close to that ideal in many ways.
BTW-I have seen PLENTY of Land Cruisers get pulled out and winched by Jeeps. Just like I have seen Jeeps pulled and winched by Land Cruisers. What I have never seen is a Jeep, pulled or winched by an FJC, but I'm sure it's coming! Charles makes a good point-we ALL get stuck, and it isn't about what you drive. Out in the boonies, things happen, and it's best for everyone if you pitch in and help, even if it is a Jeep, or worse, a Rover.
BTW-I have seen PLENTY of Land Cruisers get pulled out and winched by Jeeps. Just like I have seen Jeeps pulled and winched by Land Cruisers. What I have never seen is a Jeep, pulled or winched by an FJC, but I'm sure it's coming! Charles makes a good point-we ALL get stuck, and it isn't about what you drive. Out in the boonies, things happen, and it's best for everyone if you pitch in and help, even if it is a Jeep, or worse, a Rover.
