A Harrowing Tale of Incompetence - How I destroyed a steering knuckle (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ClassyJalopy
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^^^^
It will work itself out, but women NEVER forget. I'm not slamming women here (been married to the same one for 36 yrs) BUT there is a fundamental difference between men and women and it literally goes as deep as our DNA.
When something 'breaks' a man is pre-programmed to fix (or attempt to fix) it. A woman's first thought is to REPLACE it. So...any 'second chances' to restore her faith better damn well be flawless.
Very similar experience here. Started my LC ownership with 196k mile 2001. Had my local dealer service the front wheel bearings. Immediately after picking it up, had a vibration at speed that could not be tracked down over many attempts and many expensive replaced parts.
Out of frustration I ordered new a bearing kit and the scale from @cruiseroutfit and took it to another mechanic. I even printed @2001LC excellent instructions, walked the mechanic through step by step how I wanted it followed by the book. $800 total for parts and labor.
Well I got exactly 52 miles from the mechanics when I had a failure. Locked up left front wheel bearing.
After towed back to the dealership, and the got her apart. Not a molecule of grease was found.
It had scored the spindle so badly that it wasn't usable,
That lead my to replace everything just as the op. Spindle/knuckles, hubs, cv's all of it both sides.
Needless to say I've really had my foundation shaken and have spent more for parts than I paid for the truck.
Just in the last year, shocks, bushings, links, mounts, steering rack, valve cover gaskets, entire front end, tb/wp/serpentine/pulleys/fan clutch + bracket, radiator, ac condenser, drive shaft, pinion seal, pulled the windshield and reinstalled with oem parts and correct oversized rivets.
But hey. It's got another 200k miles in those parts hopefully and she does ride and drive like a new ride. McGeorge online parts should be sending me a Christmas card this year right?
Out of frustration I ordered new a bearing kit and the scale from @cruiseroutfit and took it to another mechanic. I even printed @2001LC excellent instructions, walked the mechanic through step by step how I wanted it followed by the book. $800 total for parts and labor.
Well I got exactly 52 miles from the mechanics when I had a failure. Locked up left front wheel bearing.
After towed back to the dealership, and the got her apart. Not a molecule of grease was found.
It had scored the spindle so badly that it wasn't usable,
That lead my to replace everything just as the op. Spindle/knuckles, hubs, cv's all of it both sides.
Needless to say I've really had my foundation shaken and have spent more for parts than I paid for the truck.
Just in the last year, shocks, bushings, links, mounts, steering rack, valve cover gaskets, entire front end, tb/wp/serpentine/pulleys/fan clutch + bracket, radiator, ac condenser, drive shaft, pinion seal, pulled the windshield and reinstalled with oem parts and correct oversized rivets.
But hey. It's got another 200k miles in those parts hopefully and she does ride and drive like a new ride. McGeorge online parts should be sending me a Christmas card this year right?
- Thread starter
- #44
Agreed there is a lot of psychological value in getting it done at a dealer - out of sight, but to be honest I don't have a ton of trust in their ability. Also, they want $3k for something I can button up in about $1k.
And yes, as much as I am madly in love with my wife, she absolutely NOT FORGET even a tiniest detail.
- Thread starter
- #45
I admire how you are strong enough to laugh about it. With the exception of front LCAs just about everything is new under this truck! Even the LCAs got new ball joints. The previous 2 owners religiously maintained it at the Lexus dealership it was bought at. All in the name of the holy grail of automotive reliability.
The promise of another 200k is an alluring one but the road to get there is fraught with gut punches like this one.
That is pretty shocking! I would be willing to bet he didn't seat the race fully into the hub, and probably didn't bother setting preload.
It's also very shocking how much heat must have been present. I would agree with the others that too high preload wouldnt even cause this much damage so quickly.
I hope you can get some money back from the botch job from the mechanic
It's also very shocking how much heat must have been present. I would agree with the others that too high preload wouldnt even cause this much damage so quickly.
I hope you can get some money back from the botch job from the mechanic
Is the lock washer there? Can't see it from the photos.. If that was missing, that'd explain what happened.
oh yeah that reminded me new 555 upper and lower ball joints from @ranma21
yeah it’s going to be the brake failure or heater core next lol.
I do have a new 40 gal LRA tank from @wardharris ready to be installed
It’s going to add some excitement to pass a few gas stations without having to stop
@ClassyJalopy if I wasn’t laughing I’d be crying about it to myself.
Sorry to hear about this happening. Especial when you were staying on-top of PM, so many don't. You were very smart to stop driving. I once said our wheels hubs can't fall off. That caliper will hold on the rotor and hub assembly. I no longer think that. This is a case where you could have lost a wheel or two and control.
Installing new snap ring and properly gaping is important. I've suggested the thinner 1.8 and 2.0mm snap rings not be included in kits. Too often I see one of these thin snap rings used. It's always due to a false gap measurement. False gap is from grease not yet settled between axle the brass bushing. If using OEM parts, even all new, the thinnest snap ring I've ever used is the factory 2.2mm. Even at first 30K mile service, we go up to a 2.4mm snap ring in most cases.
But snap ring failure (popping off) does not cause this type of damage.
This was surely a procedural error during assemble. It was Likely failure to pack hub captivity with proper amount of grease. Hub must be pack with enough grease so that centrifugal-force, forces grease into bearings. If to little grease in hub, centrifugal-force forces grease out of bearings and they overheat.
Likely races and bearings were disintegrating. Wheel hub then became cocked and or wobbled on spindle, as bearings failed to hold hub true. This likely popped off the snap rings.
To understand why something fails, is a mechanic first job. So I hope you can post tons of pictures, of each step of disassembly.
To not properly pack one side is a mistake. Mistakes happen, people get distracted or tired. Both sides is incompetence.
If you go with recycled steering knuckle. Make sure to really clean an inspect axle needle bearing and brass bushing in back or just replace them. Nothing wrong with recycled hubs either, if properly reconditioned.
With @cruiseroutfit parts you'll know you've the best parts possible. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask for advise.
Installing new snap ring and properly gaping is important. I've suggested the thinner 1.8 and 2.0mm snap rings not be included in kits. Too often I see one of these thin snap rings used. It's always due to a false gap measurement. False gap is from grease not yet settled between axle the brass bushing. If using OEM parts, even all new, the thinnest snap ring I've ever used is the factory 2.2mm. Even at first 30K mile service, we go up to a 2.4mm snap ring in most cases.
But snap ring failure (popping off) does not cause this type of damage.
This was surely a procedural error during assemble. It was Likely failure to pack hub captivity with proper amount of grease. Hub must be pack with enough grease so that centrifugal-force, forces grease into bearings. If to little grease in hub, centrifugal-force forces grease out of bearings and they overheat.
Likely races and bearings were disintegrating. Wheel hub then became cocked and or wobbled on spindle, as bearings failed to hold hub true. This likely popped off the snap rings.
To understand why something fails, is a mechanic first job. So I hope you can post tons of pictures, of each step of disassembly.
To not properly pack one side is a mistake. Mistakes happen, people get distracted or tired. Both sides is incompetence.
If you go with recycled steering knuckle. Make sure to really clean an inspect axle needle bearing and brass bushing in back or just replace them. Nothing wrong with recycled hubs either, if properly reconditioned.
With @cruiseroutfit parts you'll know you've the best parts possible. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask for advise.
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ranma21
Supporting Vendor
It is hard to find competent mechanics or workshop these days especially when it comes to LC, most mechanic does not have experience with them. Tell him to follow FSM by the words and hope it is ok this time. Or take matters into your own hand if you have time and like playing with tools! =)
I did this short video, just to show how to hand pack wheel bearings. I did kind of show and talk about packing the wheel hub cavity, at start and then again at end. My bad, camera angle was not set well to see in the hub cavity. But you'll get idea.
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Did you order spindle bearings? I didn't see it listed and don't want you to go to install and realize you need them.
From the pictures the damage the CV did would surely have taken the spindle bearing out or at the very least scored the heck out of it.
From the pictures the damage the CV did would surely have taken the spindle bearing out or at the very least scored the heck out of it.
Personally, I'd ask for a refund but avoid having the same mechanic work on my truck again. I'm certainly not a mechanic, but even I know better than using an air tool to adjust bearings. You telling him to error on the side of tight does not give license to improper procedure. I mean, yikes!
- Thread starter
- #55
I am expecting the spindle bearing, brass bushing and even the spindle to be no longer usable. Plan is to use a replacement hub from a salvage yard and replace the spindle bearing and the shallow bushing.
- Thread starter
- #56
Thanks for chiming in. The bearings and races are definitely chewed up. I am assuming the hub and spindle are also severely compromised. Right now the wheel is angled inwards at the top and it probably held by the caliper alone.
I am really hoping that the driver's side hib and spindle is not damaged and I can get away with just new bearings
ive personally learned that the front wheel assembly of our rigs is very knowledge dependent. i do my own work and specd to FSM and mudd research. makes me feel safer and dont feel like i am driving a timebomb.
The hub itself is just a hunk of iron. If bearing races did not fuse to it, splines/teeth (reluctor) for the wheel speed sensor are not damage and hub not warped, hub may be okay. Wheel speed senor is hopefully okay also!
I'd locate parts, but tear down both side before ordering to many parts.
In addition to hub wheel bearing parts:
More than likely, the RH rotor disk will need turning or replaced as will brake pads and slide pins. So may as well do front brake job while in there. Caliper will need close inspection, but likely okay as fast as you caught this.
You'll like need the brake dust shield on RH. Those get very rusty anyway, if not greased at contact point to knuckle. They're a once in a life time replacement if grease to prevent rust. Your RH one may have taken damage. The large dust shield is likely damaged also.
The brake line attaches to the knuckle by a bracket. The bolt holding brake line to bracket is often frozen on. When attempting to remove bolt, it will often damage the bracket. Instead of pulling line bolt off bracket. I remove bracket by taking bolt that holds bracket on knuckle off, when I can. I see your bracket is busted and someone put a makeshift jump from bracket to brake line. May as well get new bracket(s) and bolts.
The front drive shafts (FDS) is toast on RH (pictured in OP). They do sell just the outboard 43460-69145 SHAFT ASSY, FRONT DRIVE OUTBOARD JOINT, RH/LH. It will save you ~$200 if inboard CV and axle good. But you'll have additional labor, as oppose to just replacing the whole FDS. If replacing the whole FDS, I like to replace the side differential seals to seat with new FDS.
I'd locate parts, but tear down both side before ordering to many parts.
In addition to hub wheel bearing parts:
More than likely, the RH rotor disk will need turning or replaced as will brake pads and slide pins. So may as well do front brake job while in there. Caliper will need close inspection, but likely okay as fast as you caught this.
You'll like need the brake dust shield on RH. Those get very rusty anyway, if not greased at contact point to knuckle. They're a once in a life time replacement if grease to prevent rust. Your RH one may have taken damage. The large dust shield is likely damaged also.
The brake line attaches to the knuckle by a bracket. The bolt holding brake line to bracket is often frozen on. When attempting to remove bolt, it will often damage the bracket. Instead of pulling line bolt off bracket. I remove bracket by taking bolt that holds bracket on knuckle off, when I can. I see your bracket is busted and someone put a makeshift jump from bracket to brake line. May as well get new bracket(s) and bolts.
The front drive shafts (FDS) is toast on RH (pictured in OP). They do sell just the outboard 43460-69145 SHAFT ASSY, FRONT DRIVE OUTBOARD JOINT, RH/LH. It will save you ~$200 if inboard CV and axle good. But you'll have additional labor, as oppose to just replacing the whole FDS. If replacing the whole FDS, I like to replace the side differential seals to seat with new FDS.
- Thread starter
- #59
Awesome! Yes - I have ordered an new outboard half shaft, new rotor and new brake line. I have also ordered a new brake line. Good catch on the bracket. The axle to Diff seal is brand new OEM as of 10 days ago.
Do you have any pointers on replacing the half shaft?
As for the dust shield and brake shield - I will wait to see what the replacement piece looks like before I order it. All said and done - I think it will be another $1000 in parts alone.
I've never done a half shaft. But it will be just like doing a FDS boot job. Only you'll not have too clean and reboot the outboard tulip (CV), which is the PITA side! So should be easy enough. I'd mark, with a dermal, the position of cage to tulip and inner bearing race. Then clean and re-grease with the measured amount in supplied tube of CV grease. Take many picture during dissemble to refer back too. "Try" to get all bearing back in same spots...fun!, but not a big deal in such a low mile.
Installing the FDS with knuckle off, is so easy. Mark sure to use the new inner snap ring. FDS is seated when the dust shield is just inside (back side of shield flush with diff.) differential.
