A Harrowing Tale of Incompetence - How I destroyed a steering knuckle

[ClassyJalopy]

@ClassyJalopy, having read a lot of your posts over the past year, I have a basic idea of how much time and effort you've spent getting that LX sorted out. It's heartbreaking to see all that damage. Hope you can get this resolved quickly and get a break from the perpetual maintenance cycle you're in.

Damn sucks man, i thought you always did your own maintenance and repairs? I guess he over tightened the bearing nuts, crushing it together, and the rotation of the axles slowly just ate away at it until it disintegrated, and that caused the axle to have to much play and made the C clip back out. Trying to visualize the events that lead to this.

Thanks for the wishes. This is mostly my own damn fault to trust anyone with my truck. I have yet to take the hub apart but I am kicking myself for letting someone else repack the bearings. There is a reason I have trust issues when it comes to cars.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Ask them to remove parts and post the images here. I think your spindle and hub is OK.

Man....sorry this happened.

sounds like the c clips were too big after the fresh grease in the bearings and they popped off. That’s what spun the cv around in the drive flange.

are you sure there’s a problem with the bearings? I think it’s possible this is just a new cv and flange situation.

Damn dude that really sucks. But here is one thing you could do, go take each of those part numbers and get their prices from ToyotaPartsDeal.com and take it back to them and haggle them on the price.. For instance 43201-60020 which is the steering knuckle/spindle body they are charging you over $920 for and on the website you are looking just over $630. That is almost a $300 mark-up!

Also, you should be able to get the outboard tulip of the CV shaft and possibly replace that to save some cash if the internal tulip is still good. I would take the time to do everything myself if I have the money and time but that really is what it comes down to, the money and time. Good Luck dude!

These are excellent thoughts. I think I will just replace the outboard half of the CV axle since it is a brand new one.
I have ordered used knuckle, spindle and hub assembly (cost only $120 shipped) so I am hoping to save a large chuck of cash there.

I guess this is what I was getting at above. If the clip popped off and the axle backed out enough to spin against the flange, maybe it could drill its way through, grinding down flange and shaft splines and heating everything up. I just skimmed through the ‘Bearing Repack GURUS’ thread again and no one reports any damage from too tight bearings, only excessive wear from too loose ones. Also, I’ve read of nuts being tightened up to 70 ft-lbs to get proper preload spec with no issue. Seems like it would take a real deliberate force to actually over tighten these to such a degree that it all seized up. Wouldn’t you have to practically crush the bearing into its race?

Maybe way too little grease and the bearing overheated? How does the other side look re: grease and preload?

"ClassyJalopy wrote:

The bearings were so tight they chewed thru the bearing race and the outer hub!!

^^^^^

This would be nearly impossible short of running the bearing pre-load to 100+ ft. lbs. Loose bearings are generally the problem, not tight ones. What concerns me most about the photos is the very 'dry' look of everything and no evidence of fresh grease ever having been there.

Yes, I know grease can virtually melt away when a hub or components get REALLY hot, but there would have been terrible noise associated with the kind of damage we are seeing. But all of that dirt, rust and grime doesn't point to a bearing repack ever having been done. Or at least I wouldn't want anyone doing that kind of sub-par work on mine.

I remember telling him before he did the job that I am not at all worried about bearings being too tight - it is the loose bearings that kill these. I bet you he used an impact gun to tighten them! And yes the bearing look very very dry but I don't know if high heat vaporized the grease or if they were truly not packed with fresh grease.
@cruiseroutfit is shipping fresh bearings, c-clips and hub flange as we speak so hopefully I can pack them real good this time.

 

[bamabrock]

@ClassyJalopy , Sorry for the troubles. Been there. On the way to HIH3, I learned the expensive lesson of not properly setting the preload on the bearings and spent the day at the toyota dealer in ABQ getting it fixed. Thankfully, a couple of guys I just met, @ntsaint and @Bloomer, were willing to wait around on me. Now they can't get rid of me!

 

[gregnash]

Go familiarize yourself with @2001LC threads and videos on this (he goes by ME MY on YouTube) and use that as your baseline to get everything taken care of.

 

[flintknapper]

Go familiarize yourself with @2001LC threads and videos on this (he goes by ME MY on YouTube) and use that as your baseline to get everything taken care of.

^^^^^

Absolutely, @2001C does meticulous work, is very detail oriented and honest in his dealings. IF he doesn't know the answer to something...he will say so. But what he does know is extensive and well worth listening to.

Quite an asset here IMO.

 

[SlowBuild]

This is the kind of story that makes me feel sick, I hate hearing these kind of things. I’m glad everyone is okay. Sounds like you’re on track to have it all sorted out and in a few thousand miles it’ll be a distant memory.

If this mechanic did both sides, I’d be curious what the opposite side looks like and what it seemed to be torqued to, also how much grease. Did the dealer take apart the left or is it still intact? You said that c-clip was also off I think...

 

[mudbutt]

Oh man, that's horrible. I'm sorry to see/hear about your situation. When I did both my CV's last year, it was super time consuming and tedious, but in the end, I chose this path because, yes, it's cheaper, but mainly I did it because i'm just super anal about these things. I felt good that i did it all myself, and if it did fail, it would be on me which i'm okay with. I hate that feeling when you trust someone else to do a job and something bad happened, cause it puts you in a weird spot.
Hope it gets sorted

 

[ClassyJalopy]

This is the kind of story that makes me feel sick, I hate hearing these kind of things. I’m glad everyone is okay. Sounds like you’re on track to have it all sorted out and in a few thousand miles it’ll be a distant memory.

If this mechanic did both sides, I’d be curious what the opposite side looks like and what it seemed to be torqued to, also how much grease. Did the dealer take apart the left or is it still intact? You said that c-clip was also off I think...

The worst thing it did was shake my family's confidence in the truck. That might take a while to restore or it may not ever be trustworthy in my wife's eyes ever again. My ownership experience has been like a roller coaster so far. When it is running it is the best vehicle in the world and I would rather not drive anything else but when stuff like this happens I feel like I have wasted a lot of time and money on it.

Right now, I got it towed back to my home and have it parked in my garage. I will ignore it for about a week or so until my head clears out and then try to sort it out. At the moment we are having very serious and intense conversations at our house about the future of this or any 100 series ownership.

 

[gregnash]

Oh man, that's horrible. I'm sorry to see/hear about your situation. When I did both my CV's last year, it was super time consuming and tedious, but in the end, I chose this path because, yes, it's cheaper, but mainly I did it because i'm just super anal about these things. I felt good that i did it all myself, and if it did fail, it would be on me which i'm okay with. I hate that feeling when you trust someone else to do a job and something bad happened, cause it puts you in a weird spot.
Hope it gets sorted

Same feeling... If I mess something up because I was not tedious in doing it properly well then I blame myself and chalk it up to a learning experience. However, when I pay someone else to do it and it doesn't perform as it should, that is when I question why I did not handle myself in the first place. There are few people that I trust to do things like this unless I have experience with them. If I could, I would probably handle most of the maintenance work for the wife's 4Runner myself, however she does not feel the same way and would rather just have someone handle for her and be done with it. Hence, why it is "HER" car.

I grew up in a household where my dad handled lots of stuff himself. Manual labor was something that we did, called friends in to help where needed, and would only hire "professional" when the cost of new tool purchase and time involvement (time off to do or extended weekend usage) outweighed the cost of having someone else do it. For my brother and I, one of our first jobs was ALWAYS something that was manual labor. In my dad's words, "This will teach you the value of money and time. Both are currency in this world and you usually only have one or the other until later in your life. And once you have both, you will usually choose one because you value it over the other." I learned to enjoy a hard days work where my body and hands were sore at the end of the day because that meant I had worked hard, and if the job was completed that sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Too many people don't understand that anymore, and very rarely have experienced it themselves hence they just throw money at things. But then again, I grew up in farm country where there was plenty of manual labor type jobs available starting at the age of 12 so I learned quick and for those I grew up with it either pushed you to NEVER want to do it again or to enjoy it for what it was.

Anyways, @ClassyJalopy hopefully this all turns out well for you and your family's faith in the LC will be restored.

 

[Bloomer]

@ClassyJalopy , Sorry for the troubles. Been there. On the way to HIH3, I learned the expensive lesson of not properly setting the preload on the bearings and spent the day at the toyota dealer in ABQ getting it fixed. Thankfully, a couple of guys I just met, @ntsaint and @Bloomer, were willing to wait around on me. Now they can't get rid of me!

Funny stuff @bamabrock. Have had a blast on our trips with you and @ntsaint!

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Just heard back from the "mechanic" who originally did the job. He did use an impact gun on the bearing nut because I told him that I am not worried about them being too tight

He is offering to do free labor if I can get the replacement parts. I am just not sure I would be able to trust him again. Maybe have him rebuild my axle (I am getting the outboard shaft) and install the brake rotor and knuckle etc and repack and torque the bearings myself?

 

[flintknapper]

Did he do the other side the same way then?

 

[Imgra8ful]

Just heard back from the "mechanic" who originally did the job. He did use an impact gun on the bearing nut because I told him that I am not worried about them being too tight

He is offering to do free labor if I can get the replacement parts. I am just not sure I would be able to trust him again. Maybe have him rebuild my axle (I am getting the outboard shaft) and install the brake rotor and knuckle etc and repack and torque the bearings myself?

Holy crap! That would make for some snug bearings indeed. What was the total mileage from his 'repair' until failure?

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Did he do the other side the same way then?

Holy crap! That would make for some snug bearings indeed. What was the total mileage from his 'repair' until failure?

Both sides the same way so both need to be redone. Total mileage on this set up was about 125 to 135 mile, mostly highway

 

[suprarx7nut]

Just heard back from the "mechanic" who originally did the job. He did use an impact gun on the bearing nut because I told him that I am not worried about them being too tight

He is offering to do free labor if I can get the replacement parts. I am just not sure I would be able to trust him again. Maybe have him rebuild my axle (I am getting the outboard shaft) and install the brake rotor and knuckle etc and repack and torque the bearings myself?

Whomever does the job this time needs to do it with the fsm in hand for every step.

If it's him, you stand by to make sure it goes as it should. You should buy a set of the c clips (4 sizes in total if I remember right) to have in hand or plan on waiting for those to arrive.

On one hand, he made sure they were not loose as you requested. On the other, he's doing a high precision task without the manual and without proper tools (apparently).

 

[greasem0nkey86]

Just heard back from the "mechanic" who originally did the job. He did use an impact gun on the bearing nut because I told him that I am not worried about them being too tight

He is offering to do free labor if I can get the replacement parts. I am just not sure I would be able to trust him again. Maybe have him rebuild my axle (I am getting the outboard shaft) and install the brake rotor and knuckle etc and repack and torque the bearings myself?

Ask him for your money back, use the money to fund the "repairs" that he performed.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Whomever does the job this time needs to do it with the fsm in hand for every step.

If it's him, you stand by to make sure it goes as it should. You should buy a set of the c clips (4 sizes in total if I remember right) to have in hand or plan on waiting for those to arrive.

On one hand, he made sure they were not loose as you requested. On the other, he's doing a high precision task without the manual and without proper tools (apparently).

I can print FSM pages for him. I am leaning towards having him do it while I watch closely.
And yes i have ordered the c clip kit from @cruiseroutfit that includes all three sizes.

Ask him for your money back, use the money to fund the "repairs" that he performed.

I don't think he is willing to pay me for anything. My instructions were vague and I can see how he would misconstrue them.
I think the most I can get out him is free labor. The real question is whether thats worth anything at all.

 

[kruisinkid]

i feel like the long conversation in the 80 series section about preload when rebuilding the axle is only just beginning now in the 100 section. there are certainly enough opinions about how much and how to apply the preload, and how to measure or the lack of doing so.

from my own experience on an 80 when i rebuilt mine, i found that putting about double the prescribed-by-FSM amount initially to fully seat the bearings on the spindle, then backing off the nut entirely, then applying enough preload and constantly spinning the wheel by hand and just feeling for it actually did well. i did try the fish scale, but felt it wasnt enough. who knows?

the question that always came to mind while reading endless threads about preload was, why are guys suggesting to check after X miles to see if its still the same preload, if it loosened up? this certainly never was asked of the original owner after driving it off the lot brand new. there is a method in the factory on the line to do this and it was perfect in that moment and lasted around 150k miles or longer until you needed new bearings. yes I believe the FSM gets close, but i bet there is more to it or more details that we are not getting from the FSM.

anyways, about the wife thing, maybe make a deal that all maintenance items are only done at the dealer for the next year or so. since she probably trusts them the most. unless she can trust you to trust yourself to do it and only you. but yeah out of sight out of mind for a little while wont hurt either.

best of luck, sorry things went sideways. go badgers!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I can print FSM pages for him. I am leaning towards having him do it while I watch closely.
And yes i have ordered the c clip kit from @cruiseroutfit that includes all three sizes.


I don't think he is willing to pay me for anything. My instructions were vague and I can see how he would misconstrue them.
I think the most I can get out him is free labor. The real question is whether thats worth anything at all.

The kit comes with FSM derived instructions fwiw. Thanks for trusting us with your parts needs!

 

[ClassyJalopy]

The kit comes with FSM derived instructions fwiw. Thanks for trusting us with your parts needs!

Of course. This is the second time I am buying these exact same parts in the space of 6 months. The kit is well put together