A/C servicing; vacuum, oil and charge system?

[flintknapper]

Sure, I went through a mud crossing at an off-road park, the mud stuck to the radiator, and shortly afterwards, the bottom end of the radiator exploded from the main section, leaving a dent in my condenser in the process. Some fellow MUD members towed me back to the campsite, where we replaced the radiator. I was mostly just passing tools around and organizing the parts we had removed, but the guy working underneath let us know that he had to temporarily disconnect the AC system to pull out the old radiator (this was all happening in a campsite parking lot with limited tools, cell service, and time, so we weren't exactly following the FSM). When he disconnected the AC line, a bunch of refrigerant did leak out, suggesting that the condenser was still intact despite tanking a hit from the radiator.

The AC system was working perfectly the morning of the radiator incident, so thinking about it now I'm pretty sure it just needs to be vacuumed and refilled with oil/gas.

View attachment 3446658

Of course, I haven't used or attempted to use the AC since the radiator was replaced, to prevent any further damage to the system.

Understood. Thank you for expanding on just how this all occurred.

Clearly there were extenuating circumstances and greater concerns than preserving the A/C system at the time.

My advice at this juncture remains the same. Take it to a pro and let them decide what it needs and have them do the work.

You don't want to have to do A/C work twice, trust me. And stay out of that MUD.

 

[shtbrwn86]

Finally read through this entire thread and I have a couple of questions...

1. My AC system has been serviced multiple times in the three years I have owned the LX. It's been emptied/recharged three times with each time working for shorter and shorter intervals. I think there might be an evap leak, and I am pretty sure there is a condenser leak so I have two new OEM parts to replace. Do I hold off until I can purchase the compressor and do all three at once? 260k and I can't say for sure but the compressor didn't sound great last time it ran. I do not want to touch this system again.

2. Assuming I do all three, do I just add up the amount of oil that each part needs in the FSM? The compressor will come pre-filled I know.

3. @flintknapper you mentioned adding a little oil in the drier when doing this. I have never opened one of these up before, but I need to do this even on a new OEM condenser? Does it matter if it's new? Also, where do you add the oil? Unscrew the can and just squirt some in? Or pull the dessicant bag and pour in and then replace the bag?

Thanks for being such a great resource on here. We are all very appreciative.

 

[flintknapper]

Finally read through this entire thread and I have a couple of questions...

1. My AC system has been serviced multiple times in the three years I have owned the LX. It's been emptied/recharged three times with each time working for shorter and shorter intervals. I think there might be an evap leak, and I am pretty sure there is a condenser leak so I have two new OEM parts to replace. Do I hold off until I can purchase the compressor and do all three at once? 260k and I can't say for sure but the compressor didn't sound great last time it ran. I do not want to touch this system again.

2. Assuming I do all three, do I just add up the amount of oil that each part needs in the FSM? The compressor will come pre-filled I know.

3. @flintknapper you mentioned adding a little oil in the drier when doing this. I have never opened one of these up before, but I need to do this even on a new OEM condenser? Does it matter if it's new? Also, where do you add the oil? Unscrew the can and just squirt some in? Or pull the dessicant bag and pour in and then replace the bag?

Thanks for being such a great resource on here. We are all very appreciative.

When replacing all the components (Compressor, Condenser, Evaporator) I like to add the specified amount to each component right before installation. A new compressor will come filled with the correct amount of PAG oil for the entire system and in theory would distribute it (Oil is carried throughout the system by the refrigerant) but you risk 'slugging' your compressor upon first start up if you don't first turn the compressor 12-15 full revolutions by hand...to discharge some of the oil from the compressor.

The FSM states the correct amount (approx) for each component. So best to drain the new compressor of the oil in it, add the correct amount to each new component and the remaining amount back into the compressor.

Don't open the drier on the new condenser, just place the oil in one of the openings where the lines connect. Your condenser is parallel flow.... so the oil will find its way to the drier and the bottom of the condenser when run.

 

[shtbrwn86]

When replacing all the components (Compressor, Condenser, Evaporator) I like to add the specified amount to each component right before installation. A new compressor will come filled with the correct amount of PAG oil for the entire system and in theory would distribute it (Oil is carried throughout the system by the refrigerant) but you risk 'slugging' your compressor upon first start up if you don't first turn the compressor 12-15 full revolutions by hand...to discharge some of the oil from the compressor.

The FSM states the correct amount (approx) for each component. So best to drain the new compressor of the oil in it, add the correct amount to each new component and the remaining amount back into the compressor.

Don't open the drier on the new condenser, just place the oil in one of the openings where the lines connect. Your condenser is parallel flow.... so the oil will find its way to the drier and the bottom of the condenser when run.

Thank you. That really helps explain the process and how it all goes together. So do you think I should replace my compressor too? I really have no idea how much oil is in the system and like I said, the compressor sounded "off" last time it was running. Almost like a rattling sound.

 

[flintknapper]

Thank you. That really helps explain the process and how it all goes together. So do you think I should replace my compressor too? I really have no idea how much oil is in the system and like I said, the compressor sounded "off" last time it was running. Almost like a rattling sound.

It's extra work and expense....but in my opinion well worth it. IF the compressor is original to the vehicle OR has significant age, you would be taking a gamble to NOT replace it. If it were to fail (best case scenario) you would be replacing the compressor and having to evacuate the system, pump it down, recharge it.

Worst case scenario: is upon failure it sends small bits of metal all throughout the system you just replaced and you'll be doing it all over again.

My advice to those who plan to keep their vehicle for a long time or have already gone as far as you plan to go (replacing components) is: 'Bite the Bullet', replace it all. A/C work is tedious and expensive enough without having to go back in a second time.

Coincidentally, I am getting ready to replace everything on my Wife's LX470 in the next week or so (Compressor, Condenser, Evaporator, TXV, Suction and Discharge lines, etc).

 

[shtbrwn86]

It's extra work and expense....but in my opinion well worth it. IF the compressor is original to the vehicle OR has significant age, you would be taking a gamble to NOT replace it. If it were to fail (best case scenario) you would be replacing the compressor and having to evacuate the system, pump it down, recharge it.

Worst case scenario: is upon failure it sends small bits of metal all throughout the system you just replaced and you'll be doing it all over again.

My advice to those who plan to keep their vehicle for a long time or have already gone as far as you plan to go (replacing components) is: 'Bite the Bullet', replace it all. A/C work is tedious and expensive enough without having to go back in a second time.

Coincidentally, I am getting ready to replace everything on my Wife's LX470 in the next week or so (Compressor, Condenser, Evaporator, TXV, Suction and Discharge lines, etc).

View attachment 3454836

Yeah I think I’m gonna just do it all at once. I live in Washington, not Texas, but A/C is still nice to have.

 

[flintknapper]

Yeah I think I’m gonna just do it all at once. I live in Washington, not Texas, but A/C is still nice to have.

You still need A/C to 'clear the windows' on humid days.

But the biggest thing is: IF the compressor were to fail catastrophically, it could send small bits of metal through the system from the compressor to the TXV (where hopefully the screen would catch the debris before ruining the Evaporator too.

So you'd be looking at replacing the Compressor and Condenser (at a minimum) and flushing all the hard lines. Then adding oil, pulling a vacuum, recharging the system (again).

If finances allow....it would be smart of you to do the compressor as well and then have an entirely new system (components). You are 7/8ths the way there anyway.

 

[Eyedaho]

It's extra work and expense....but in my opinion well worth it. IF the compressor is original to the vehicle OR has significant age, you would be taking a gamble to NOT replace it. If it were to fail (best case scenario) you would be replacing the compressor and having to evacuate the system, pump it down, recharge it.

Worst case scenario: is upon failure it sends small bits of metal all throughout the system you just replaced and you'll be doing it all over again.

My advice to those who plan to keep their vehicle for a long time or have already gone as far as you plan to go (replacing components) is: 'Bite the Bullet', replace it all. A/C work is tedious and expensive enough without having to go back in a second time.

Coincidentally, I am getting ready to replace everything on my Wife's LX470 in the next week or so (Compressor, Condenser, Evaporator, TXV, Suction and Discharge lines, etc).

View attachment 3454836

Thank you again @flintknapper for another detailed post. I'm following suit shortly, and am collecting all of the parts. I have two questions.

1) When you say etc, does that include any large items beyond o-rings, refrigerant, and the like?

2) I plan to cap off my rear evaporator lines since I have other plans for that rear space. Do you know what the fittings are for those two lines, so that I can find caps/plugs to fit? I know I can get aftermarket compression fittings and cut the lines, but I would rather just cap them at the existing fittings.

Thank you!

 

[flintknapper]

Thank you again @flintknapper for another detailed post. I'm following suit shortly, and am collecting all of the parts. I have two questions.

1) When you say etc, does that include any large items beyond o-rings, refrigerant, and the like?

2) I plan to cap off my rear evaporator lines since I have other plans for that rear space. Do you know what the fittings are for those two lines, so that I can find caps/plugs to fit? I know I can get aftermarket compression fittings and cut the lines, but I would rather just cap them at the existing fittings.

Thank you!

"ect": Would just be O-Rings, Schrader Valves, Caps and such. No other major parts/components.

Addressing your second question:

No, I am sorry. I don't know the fitting sizes...but I seem to remember that someone has done what you propose. You might be able to use the search function to find it. There has been quite a bit written about deleting the rear A/C in the past.

Good luck with your project and let us know how it all went.

Flint.

 

[Eyedaho]

"ect": Would just be O-Rings, Schrader Valves, Caps and such. No other major parts/components.

Addressing your second question:

No, I am sorry. I don't know the fitting sizes...but I seem to remember that someone has done what you propose. You might be able to use the search function to find it. There has been quite a bit written about deleting the rear A/C in the past.

Good luck with your project and let us know how it all went.

Flint.

Thank you for the feedback! I got the condenser, evaporator, txv, suction and discharge soft lines, and service valves ordered last night with the 20% off and free shipping deal from Decatur. I will keep investigating the line capping options.

 

[shtbrwn86]

Thank you for the feedback! I got the condenser, evaporator, txv, suction and discharge soft lines, and service valves ordered last night with the 20% off and free shipping deal from Decatur. I will keep investigating the line capping options.

Do you have a part number for the valves? I want OEM but haven't been able to find them separately.
Never mind... found it. High/Low side use the same part number...

 

[shtbrwn86]

@flintknapper Do you put nylog on the o-rings and threads of the Schraeder valves? Do you also put it on the service port threads where the plastic cap screws on?

 

[flintknapper]

@flintknapper Do you put nylog on the o-rings and threads of the Schraeder valves? Do you also put it on the service port threads where the plastic cap screws on?

View attachment 3461456

Yes to all.

It will not harden and has NO effect on the refrigerant if you get any inside the system. It's just a very good (IMO) thread and surface sealant. I use it to lubricate O-Rings, as a thread sealant and even on 'mating surfaces' where hoses connect to components or other hoses.

 

[shtbrwn86]

But the biggest thing is: IF the compressor were to fail catastrophically, it could send small bits of metal through the system from the compressor to the TXV (where hopefully the screen would catch the debris before ruining the Evaporator too.

Sorry for all the questions on this but I want to make sure I get this right….

How would one know that the compressor has failed catastrophically? Mine stopped turning on when the pressure got too low, it how would know there was any damage done? It didn’t seize up as far as I can tell…

 

[flintknapper]

Sorry for all the questions on this but I want to make sure I get this right….

How would one know that the compressor has failed catastrophically? Mine stopped turning on when the pressure got too low, it how would know there was any damage done? It didn’t seize up as far as I can tell…

Your compressor did as it should have. There is a Binary Switch (pressure switch) that will prevent the compressor clutch from engaging when/if the pressure is too LOW or too HIGH. So no worries there.

There is also a sensor on the back of the compressor itself, that if working properly will prevent the compressor clutch from engaging if the compressor starts to 'seize' up. This is to prevent (supposedly) your serpentine belt from being destroyed if the compressor were to lock up. If the computer sees a significant difference between engine speed (crank) and compressor speed....it assumes the compressor is trying to seize and disables the compressor clutch.

So....you have these 3 safeguards already in place and the complete failure of a compressor (seized) on a 100 series is a fairly rare event but it does happen. By the time a compressor reaches a condition where it would seize...a LOT of wear has already occurred and small bits of metal can be present various places in the system anyway.

Now to address your question (How do you know if the compressor has failed catastrophically):

If you can not turn the compressor by hand (Belt removed, system evacuated) then you can assume it has seized or is about to. If the compressor is old or original to the vehicle and the service history unknown, then odds are....it has significant wear. It is left to the owner to decide whether to replace or not. But a word to the wise....you don't want to have to do A/C work twice.

 

[shtbrwn86]

Your compressor did as it should have. There is a Binary Switch (pressure switch) that will prevent the compressor clutch from engaging when/if the pressure is too LOW or too HIGH. So no worries there.

There is also a sensor on the back of the compressor itself, that if working properly will prevent the compressor clutch from engaging if the compressor starts to 'seize' up. This is to prevent (supposedly) your serpentine belt from being destroyed if the compressor were to lock up. If the computer sees a significant difference between engine speed (crank) and compressor speed....it assumes the compressor is trying to seize and disables the compressor clutch.

So....you have these 3 safeguards already in place and the complete failure of a compressor (seized) on a 100 series is a fairly rare event but it does happen. By the time a compressor reaches a condition where it would seize...a LOT of wear has already occurred and small bits of metal can be present various places in the system anyway.

Now to address your question (How do you know if the compressor has failed catastrophically):

If you can not turn the compressor by hand (Belt removed, system evacuated) then you can assume it has seized or is about to. If the compressor is old or original to the vehicle and the service history unknown, then odds are....it has significant wear. It is left to the owner to decide whether to replace or not. But a word to the wise....you don't want to have to do A/C work twice.

Thank you for such a detailed explanation! I’m heeding your advice and bought a Denso compressor to go with OeM evap, TX, and condenser as well as the low pressure line off the compressor.

I can’t fathom doing this twice.

 

[flintknapper]

Thank you for such a detailed explanation! I’m heeding your advice and bought a Denso compressor to go with OeM evap, TX, and condenser as well as the low pressure line off the compressor.

I can’t fathom doing this twice.

It will be well worth the time and expense (in your case).

I am actually right in the middle of doing the same thing with mine and find myself wondering why Toyota chose to put the compressor where they did.

I'd rather have my skin peeled off in small strips than to remove and replace one again.

 

[Eyedaho]

It will be well worth the time and expense (in your case).

I am actually right in the middle of doing the same thing with mine and find myself wondering why Toyota chose to put the compressor where they did.

I'd rather have my skin peeled off in small strips than to remove and replace one again.

How was it replacing the evaporator and txv?

 

[flintknapper]

How was it replacing the evaporator and txv?

Doing that this weekend....so if I survive it, I will let you know.

Probably going to remove the passenger side seat for more room.

I'm a full size person 6'-5" and 260 lbs. so any work that involves getting up under the dash or bodily contortions is rough on me. It doesn't help that I am almost 70 yrs. old either. But I just don't trust anyone else to do it right.

The good news is I am retired and Mrs. Flintknapper has another vehicle to drive....so if I reach a quitting point, I WILL.

And I have Cold Beer....if comes down to that.

 

[shtbrwn86]

How was it replacing the evaporator and txv?

I haven’t done it yet but the books says to remove the entire dash. But there’s a guy on here that sells a repair bracket so you can just cut the plastic bar and then reconnect it with the bracket.