1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

A/C - Convert R12 to R134

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by MJ_Oregon, Aug 13, 2006.

  1. MJ_Oregon

    MJ_Oregon

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Can you convert or would you need to replace the whole operation. I saw this kit on Man-A-Fre.

    http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa/r134retrofitkitfj60.htm

    Seems like a cheap fix, but maybe too good to be true.
     
  2. loeky

    loeky

    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Location:
    san francisco
    that's the kit you'll need. it's just the fittings that change as the size of the molecule is different.

    evacuation is supposed to be done by someone with a license, but after that you should be able to use the information posted here previously to get through the job. use search.
     
  3. Tinker

    Tinker

    Messages:
    2,865
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    Location:
    Larkspur, CO
    I wouldn't waste my time with 134 - just had my '84 converted to HC-12a & it amazed the mechanic. Blew 31F on the street when it was 85F out.

    Only problem is getting the shop to do it. The Cruiserhead mechanic next door to my shop dove right into it, even though the owner (both are friends) wasn't wild about the idea. Took less than 2 6oz cans. Shop charged $125 to change all the o-rings, evacuate & test the sytem, & charge. HC-12a is $8 a can + shipping.

    Check out http://www.foxtoolsupply.com
     
  4. nikos8

    nikos8

    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Location:
    Connecticut
    So is there any conversion needed to use the HC-12 or can it be used after the R-12 is evacuated?
     
  5. FL cruiser

    FL cruiser

    Messages:
    1,551
    Media:
    7
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    St petersburg, Florida
    That kit would work fine. You might be able to save $10 buying a kit at a local auto parts store. Or you could just put an R134 low side port adapter on the center port of your R12 guages and even save money on the kit. I would clean out the A/C system though.
    For 134 what I do is disconnect the low side hose off the evap at the firewall, put a funnel on it, pout mineral spirits in it while I hot wire te compressor to the battery. I pump a gallon through the complete system. Makes a mess cause it sprays out the open evaporator tube all over the enine compartment. But it cleans the engine compartment. Then I blow air through the system to try to get the mineral spirit residue out. Then I attach all the hoses, vacuum it down, add PAG oil and charge the system with 134.
    Only takes 20 minutes to do.
    A new drier canister should be used no matter what route you take.
    With the HC-12, no flushing of the system or conversion is needed. I've used it with good results twice on other cars. But to be honest I can't tell the difference in temperature at the vent in most cases between R12, HC12, FR12 and R134A. A few months ago after a compressor failure, and R134A was up to $14 a can, and R12 wasn't that much more at $20, I converted my FJ60 from R134 back to R12. Temp at the vents is the same. R134 has gone back down in price now. I would go with whatever is cheapest.
     
  6. norcalvws

    norcalvws

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Location:
    Lost Coast of California
    Just a friendly warning regarding these "HC" refigerants. These were heavily used in the 40's & 50's before R-12, 22, 502 Etc. They were designed to replace these extremely flamable gases. They do cool great but, there in one small Potential problem.
    If you develop a leak at a fitting, have a line fail or damage the condensor/evaporator coils (get in a front end collision) you have a huge potential for fire!!!
    This is happening more & more with the marketing of these flamable HC replacements & our old cars with A/C.
    R-134 can be used as a replacement refrigerant provded you replace the old seals Vacuum out the system, replace the oil with 134 compatable oil (there are blends that can be used with the old blends without becoming acidic to the lines).
    Use a certified MVAC tech to recover the old R-12 it is still legal to recharge your system with R-12 by a licenced MVAC.
    Lucky me, I'm a universal HVAC tec & have my own Gauges. I still have to go to the local shop as i don't have my own recovery system. Always charge using a temprature/ pressure reference chart.
    Just my .02 worth.
    Dave.

     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2006
  7. Martin White

    Martin White

    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Location:
    Abbotsford, B.C.
    I did a lot of research on this topic and concluded the best option for an R12 designed system was to go with something designed to work in that system rather than retrofit to R134. I just had my system converted to Redtec. It now gets so cold, I run the fan lower than I used to. All that and no increased pressure concerns.
     
  8. nikos8

    nikos8

    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Location:
    Connecticut
    More info on the redtec please. What kind of conversion was necessary on the system? Where did you get it from?
     
  9. Zack1978

    Zack1978 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    2,974
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    120
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004


    I didn't know that you could buy R12? I know that someone with a permit can get it, but a regular person? I still have about 8-10 cans of R12 in my basement from MANY years ago!

    Zack

    PS: My FJ-60 is running R134, and it is just fine.
     
  10. Mountain Goat

    Mountain Goat

    Messages:
    543
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Location:
    Oregon
    Competant A/C shops will tell you not to convert an R-12 system to R-134a. R-12 is still available. It's pricey, but you can still recharge R-12 systems.
     
  11. Tapage

    Tapage Club 4X4 Panamá SILVER Star

    Messages:
    22,869
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Location:
    Panamá
    What's up if you only make a vaccum to hole system, and put adecuate oil and R134 .. ? without nothing more . ?
     
  12. loeky

    loeky

    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Location:
    san francisco
    i'm interested in more info about Radtec as well.
     
  13. FL cruiser

    FL cruiser

    Messages:
    1,551
    Media:
    7
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    St petersburg, Florida
    You can still buy R12 on Ebay. All they usually want to see is an A/C certification card. They aren't all that scrutinous. A scan of a buddys home A/C card can work. It is nice to know someone in a garage or in the A/C business.

    Tapage, Doing just what you said works fine most of the time.
    Except for some rare exceptions, saying that all the seals must be changed is BS.
    Flushing out the old mineral oil is a GOOD idea, but I know a few shops that don't do a thorough flush and don't have many comebacks.
    There are a couple A/C compressor models out there that aren't very tolerant. We're lucky we have Land Cruisers and won't have compressor problems switching refrigerants.
    But why take a chance. Flushing the system is easy and drier canisters are cheap.
     
  14. koop

    koop

    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    10th Circuit
    you can take the cert test for A/C on line and get your card.
     
  15. Tapage

    Tapage Club 4X4 Panamá SILVER Star

    Messages:
    22,869
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Location:
    Panamá
    Thanks .. I'm gonna take a chance this weekend .. I hope all come fine .. await the feedback next week.
     
  16. shinny

    shinny

    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Redtek

    Redtek has an lel of 2%. IMHO, that's too dangerous for me!
     
  17. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

    Messages:
    11,194
    Likes Received:
    24
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2003
    Location:
    Wherever the truck stops!!
    David, make sure that whoever does the work actually puts the system under an absolute vacuum which is 30" Hg for a MINIMUM of 20 minutes.
    When I had mine done in Tegucigalpa last year the guy only used a compressor and he had the gas going in before I caught him. The system performance was TERRIBLE!
    I had to re-evacuate and recharge the system because of this incompetent A/C "mechanic".

    btw I run R134a in my BJ60 and it does just fine in Central American jungles.
     
  18. OlympiaFJ60

    OlympiaFJ60

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Location:
    Olympia, WA
  19. Tapage

    Tapage Club 4X4 Panamá SILVER Star

    Messages:
    22,869
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Location:
    Panamá
    I do it few weeks ago .. and have no problems yet .. I can't say it's far better now .. but maybe yes little better. anycase is more common than 12
     
data-matched-content-rows-num="2,1" data-matched-content-columns-num="1,4" data-matched-content-ui-type="image_stacked" data-ad-format="autorelaxed">