'91 won't start 3fe

[lordbater]

Thanks for the continued help guys, I'm not usually thas stupid. Since I'm not looking at a quick fix, I'm making arrangements to get the truck towed to my house where I can work on it at a more leisurely pace where I have real internet access on a real computer.

Andrew

 

[jonheld]

OK, you have verified that the coil is good.
There is no FSM check for the igniter which is suspect at this point.
However you really should test the pickup coils in the dissy before replacing anything.

 

[lordbater]

OK, you have verified that the coil is good.
There is no FSM check for the igniter which is suspect at this point.
However you really should test the pickup coils in the dissy before replacing anything.

Ok, that's where my thinking was heading.. I got a trailer and towed the truck home, so I'm not having to drive 30 minutes each way to try something. I'll check that in the morning. I Think I've got a local guy with a coil/igniter assembly, possibly a distributor. I noticed the testing documentation mentioned to replace the distributor if the pickup coil was bad, are those parts not available?

A

 

[jonheld]

Correct. Distributor coils aren't available as seperate parts. However any 3FE distributor will work from 88-92 and they can be found on the used market easily.

 

[lordbater]

Cool, thanks.
Just curious, if the dist from a 62 will work in my 80, what's different in the coil setup that won't work?


Oh, Is it possible to have problems in the pickup coil and not get a zap out of the coil? I mentioned earlier that I held the coil wire in my hand while my buddy turned it over and there was no shock, that I remember anyway, but I have a cool sense of calm about me especially considering my 80 is broken...

2 points

1) the salt air corrosion that was obvious to the cap/rotor leads me to believe the pickup coil or parts inside the dist are toast.

2) I think I should have had the piss shocked out of me by holding the coil wire last night, so that points me towards igniter..

Any validity or reason to those points?




thanks

A

 

[jonheld]

The FJ62 uses a different coil/igniter/ECU than an FJ80.

The disributor coils generate a timing pulse which is then adjusted by the ECU. The ECU feeds the igniter a corrected pulse which in turn feeds the primary of the ignition coil. The secondary of the ignition coil feeds the distributor rotor.

Without the pulse from the distributor coils, you got nothin'.

If the dissy coils test good, then you need to start tracing wiring from the coils back to the ECU.

 

[lordbater]

ok, so if I understand you correctly, if the dissy coils don't send signal to igniter, then I can stick my tongue to the coil wire safely?

a

 

[smkcomp]

I had the exact same problem with my dizzy. I thought that it was coil replaced no help. I thought that that it was ignitor replaced no help. People were just giving me while ass guess on forum. EFI this and that. Follow the instruction on the PDF file and test the pickup coil on the dizzy. Mine was going in and out. I found an used one locally. I did not replace the whole dizzy, I just replaced the pickup coils. It is a easy 10 minute max job. This way you don't have to mess with dizzy angle and so on. My rig is running like a champ now. My rig used to die and won't start but cranks. This happened often while I was out in middle of no where. I had to tow it once. There are fine wires in the pickup coil that may have gotten damaged or shorting now after water got in. So just replace your pickup coils with known good one from a good used one. CEL code will indicate that it will be a the pickup coil as well. You have to jump the diagnostic ports to get the code. I was not doing it right so I did not get any code initially.

 

[jonheld]

ok, so if I understand you correctly, if the dissy coils don't send signal to igniter, then I can stick my tongue to the coil wire safely?

I am not following what/why you are asking. If you verified the ignition coil windings as per the FSM and they are within spec, then the ignition coil is now out of the equation. We move on to the next part and verify.

 

[lordbater]

I was trying to clarify that if the pickup coil is bad (or bad wiring) that in turn, it would not tell the ingitor to juice up the coil, this would explain why I could not get an arc out of the coil wire even though my coil was good.
I will get back to the truck tomorrow, had a rough day today.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[jonheld]

Oh. OK. Then yes, feel free to place any suitable body part in there

 

[lordbater]

so, I'm confused, do I need a BIGGER coil?



a

 

[lordbater]

Alright, I just not got around to checking the pickup coil. I made sure I was on the proper scale this time. :/

on the NE - G- I get 2200Ohms
on the G - G- it is open on all scales.

The pickup coil looks badly corroded.

time for a distributor...

A

 

[busmup808]

Wow did you fix your problem? I just was looking at my history records and saw the PO had the same problem in 08 before I bought the truck. The part number 1910061240 from TOYOTA. $846 brand new. Wow. Glad not me. The PO did all his maintenance at Toyota. Good luck

 

[lordbater]

no, I have located a used one nearby, but don't have a price yet..

a

 

[lordbater]

Thanks for all the help guys. I finally got around to getting a new distributor, aftermarket around $300. timed it by ear. none of the local autoparts stores rent timing lights or tachometers. I think I have a set at my dad's house.. I timed it by ear, which was in the as close as I can tell the same spot it was in when I took it apart. It will have to do for a 75mile trip tomorrow.

An odd casualty for letting is sit for a month. my master cylinder has sprung a leak. Never been low on fluid before, and no signs of long term leakage, but a fresh drip from around the top passenger side bolt running to the bottom bolt... I'll go do my research and see if there are any 'upgrade' possibilities available to me, I'd like to have a larger one if it would help with breaking power..

Thanks again for the help.

Andrew

 

[triskelion]

so what are the parts you changed in order if you can

seems like a nice workflow for the no start issue

im keeping track of this fix

 

[bcstoy]

have you actually tried to check for engine codes in the MIL (CE accorting to some)? For the ECU to fire the truck it needs a Ne and G signals. If it is not getting either one of those it will not fire. Ne is the RPM signal (CKPS) the G and G- is CMPS signal. Having said that in the ignition system the igniter is the more frequent failure.

 

[lordbater]

I have a CEL for O2 sensors. I'm unclear if it will give me multiple codes or not.. but that is the only one I'm getting.

I will post pictures of my Distributor. It is very corroded. It failed the FSM test that is explained in the link posted earlier by Mr. Held.. I replaced it and it's breathing again. I didn't have a timing light, so I eared it. it feels good. I purchased a timing light and the guys at all my local autoparts stores looked at me as if I were alien when I asked if they had a tach. they pointed to the wall with the crappy aftermarket wannabe stuff.. I'll just have to rely on the dash for the tach then time it. anyone have any input on this?

the troubleshooting in the link posted by Jon was right on the money. If you didn't read the whole thread, I'll tell you the pitfall I ran into was that I assumed that since the first test was in Ohms, the second was in K (as in thousand) Ohms, and I missed that as I was reading it on my dumbphone.. (gotta lay the blame somewhere )

A

 

[bcstoy]

I wrote something on this question but apparently never made it. The ecu needs to see the Ne signal for engine RPMs and the G and G- signals to command the igniter to fire the coil. So see if you have the right resistence at the distributor plug. If you do then it means the pick up coils are good. Then if your coil is good then the only thing left is that the igniter is failing to relay the collapse of the magnetic field inside the coil to generate the spark. I do not remember reading if you had retrieved any DTCs from the ecu. Presumably, a malfuction in the ignition system should trigger codes 12 or 13 I think. If there are not any codes then your problem could be an electrical one. For practical purpose the most likely failure in the ignition system is usually the igniter. If you get another one make sure is the right one. In fact I have a coil/igniter assembly from my swap. I do not need it and could sell it to you if you want. It is in good working order. If you get the igniter make sure is the right one or it may not work as intended.