80 not starting (and new just tested battery) (1 Viewer)

[landcruiser3DP]

Good advice @lazy .

One caveat about testing continuity and resistance of the wiring itself. If the wire is degraded due to age and oxidation of the copper, it may well "ohm out" OK on the multimeter, but that's essentially a no-load resistance measurement. If the wiring is degraded, it may still be not capable of delivering full voltage at the current required by the solenoid to fire correctly (which is something on the order of a few tens of amps, if I remember correctly).

Not to add to the complication, but another way to check this under load is to measure the voltage at the solenoid terminal when the key is in the start position. This is just another variation on the 16ga wire jumper test. And I'd definitely do that before swapping any components or doing other measurements. That'll at least tell you what part of the circuit to focus on.

hey man.
on “Ohm out”. is there any way you could walk me through a practical example on this? i actually have a fluke MM that i scored off a pawn shop for $50. i think they thought it was busted or couldn’t sell it. and also apparently the contacts to the LED sometimes need to be cleaned so the screen can be dull. but it is like a ten minute fix AFAIK.
anyway, say in this case i would put POS probe to solenoid pos and NEG probe to ground (with the battery hooked up)? and i have it set to Ohms?
or i guess i am not testing anything there and i need to have the NEG run back to the battery terminal?
sorry i guess messes up with this for some reason. testing amps or bolts i run the NEG probe to ground because i am testing V or A? but for the Ohm test - well i could test reaistance in the whole solenoid by going neg to pos or i could test the wire /leading/ to the solenoid?
or what is the universe of electrical tests i can run here? aside from the practical test of running 16 ga from pos pole to pos on the solenoid please?

 

[landcruiser3DP]

In the front is a key to all the shapes - upside down triangle = ground, hexagon = splice, rectangle = connector etc. There is also a diagram towards the front that lists all the ground points if I remember correctly.

q1 - grounds are shown with upside down triangle. Ground EC for example. There is a diagram in the EWD showing where they all are. The starter is self ground through the engine and no specific ground (but relies on the grounds of the engine grounding straps). You can test continuity by touching starter and then neg battery terminal with a multi meter and reading ohms.

q2 - II2 is the name of the connector. You have identified it in your 2nd picture and there will be an exact diagram below the tables showing what the connector looks like and which wires are in which slots that pertain to that circuit. Specific to II1 and the starting/ignition circuit, only wire one pertains and it will show a '1' in the appropriate connector slots. That wire is also 'B-W' or black with a white stripe. Other wires which are in the connector and but do not pertain to the circuit have a dot, if it is not occupied by a wire, there is an 'x'.

q3 - have you read the first couple pages of the EWD? there is a "how to use this book" section.

thanks again for this help.
here is the page for power source and grounds. i took a quick look but here must be a couple places where the harness is grounded at the engine is that right?

 

[jonheld]

The NSS is physically mounted to the side of the transmission in line with the shift rod. It is a "pizza slice" shaped item. The location diagram is pointing to the actual electrical connector which is located under the "pesky heater hose" at the very rear of the engine down below.

 

[nemoblackdog]

When I was talking about using the multimeter to "ohm out" a connection it was simply to measure the resistance of a piece of wire. I wasn't really speaking about any particular measurement you should do. This is also sometimes called a "connectivity check" to see if there is any connection at all. In your case, since you hear clicks, that is evidence you have connectivity, it just might not be good enough to drive the solenoid.

I hate to keep harping on this, but I think you maybe have a little bit of losing the forest for the trees going on here. Have you done the "16ga wire jumper test" yet? I think that's really what needs to be done first before we look at any individual components, or doing any particular multimeter checks.

 

[jonheld]

Please don't take offence here, but for the life of me, I can't understand how troubleshooting one of the simplest circuits on the vehicle has become a science project.
The starter has 2 wires.
1 is a direct connection to the positive battery terminal.
The other is the logic side that fires the starter from the ignition switch.

Do you get +12 at the starter logic when the ignition key is in the START position? If no, then you can start troubleshooting.
Have you tested the starter by simply jumping the hot lug to the logic terminal on the starter? If that fails, replace the starter, or replace the starter contacts.

 

[051009]

I'm a little concerned by your basic questions on using a multimeter and would probably suggest that you study up on some basic electrical theory with a simpler circuit before attempting to measure anything on the car with only the electrical wiring diagram as your guide.

Try starting here:

How to Use a Multimeter - SparkFun Learn

 

[nemoblackdog]

Wholly agreed - do the jumper test first - either directly from the lug on the starter or from the battery positive terminal. The only reason I like doing it from the battery is my head isn't down under into the car when I'm doing it. Just more comfortable for me.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

When I was talking about using the multimeter to "ohm out" a connection it was simply to measure the resistance of a piece of wire. I wasn't really speaking about any particular measurement you should do. This is also sometimes called a "connectivity check" to see if there is any connection at all. In your case, since you hear clicks, that is evidence you have connectivity, it just might not be good enough to drive the solenoid.

I hate to keep harping on this, but I think you maybe have a little bit of losing the forest for the trees going on here. Have you done the "16ga wire jumper test" yet? I think that's really what needs to be done first before we look at any individual components, or doing any particular multimeter checks.

hey man, THANKS for the help here. i try to ask additional questions when i run into anything electrical to try to keep learning. so getting good answers is a big help for learning.

i’ve always found low voltage confusing but i keep slowly staying after it and eventually it clicks for me. i guess it sounds confusing in the meantime so sorry for that.

i ended up doing the fuel filter and the starter this weekend. i actually did not do the direct to solenoid test in part because it was 105 here and i had a bit of an adventure with the fuel filter (crack the gas cap before you start).

anyway i was doing this work in the street and disconnected the heavy gauge to the starter and the connector to the solenoid and then some space under a carport opened up so i buttons it all back up again and jumpers it to move under the carport to do the starter.

interestingly enough after i connected back up the connections it started string reliably but i didn’t want to basically stress test the thing since i was this far into it.

long story short is that a new denso is in and i believe an AC delco came out.

i also learned a TON studying the electrical manual in the meantime and with the answers here so many thanks.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

the starter bolts were massively stuck and i had a hell of a time getting to them. no good way to get a breaker bar out of the front bolt IMHO. i think the delco may have a slightly higher threaded POS connection which makes it even more difficult but don’t quote me on that.
if i had to do it again i would go out and buy some swivel sockets.
for the rear bolt i eventually ended up getting a 6” extension on a 1/2” breaker bar. then getting my feet toward the back and grabbed the right radius arm with my left hand and with my right i had about 1/2 to an inch of distance to try to get the bolt started. it was barely enough but once started a conventional ratchet got the back one off.
in front i tried everything and eventually jammed my makita in there with a 6” extension on it.
anyway thanks a TON to everyone for the help.
here is the new denso.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

cleaning the POS terminal to the starter and the handy wits end shiv.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

sanding the POS connection to the starter and adding dielectric grease.