80 front end repack: dealer done? when?

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Pit,

The balls are held in place by means of a "star" shaped part inside of a bearing cage. The force is applied by the star, to the balls, and then to a bell shaped housing which in turn spins the outer axle and your wheel. The balls work a slight groove into the inside of the cage and housing, and it is the balls popping into these grooves when the wheels are turned sharply that causes the clicking noise.

I frankly agree with you that a mall cruiser can continue to operate in this condition, albeit with a bit of noise, until the grooves get so deep that one day a ball does not slip into it quite fast enough and jams before doing so. Bang. Instant grenaded birf. Or, the grooves are not deep but the birf grease has dried up and one day a ball hangs up. Again - bang.

If the differential is constantly filled and the leaking gear oil bathes the birf, it will help, but once the leaking axle seal gets to a certain point, the oil will flow through quickly and the owner is driving on a very lightly lubed birf. More heat in there dries the gear lube more quickly than the owner's inspection cycle, and boom. So lots of possible scenarios.

How long will they last? - a long time. You could have a badly leaking birfield last for years because of good front diff fluid attention.


Rick,

The parts are heat treated by Mr. T and as you wear, you actually go through the surface treatment and into softer metal. These surfaces don't get work hardened as a high speed engine bearing might. I do agree that minor tolerances get matched during the break in phase, however. And reversing them causes the balls to work on the opposite faces of the star, cage and housing, which starts off again with much less slack on the drive side in terms of the ball groove thing. What's key is that you're again starting like it did at the factory with no groove to catch the balls and cause the clicking, though there will likely be a little still occuring as the balls can thump against the "coast" side of things (which used to be the worn "drive" side of things) when they pop. But it's not the destructive click/pop that was occuring before the birfs were swapped.

I also agree that if you disassemble the joint, it would be wise to mark them and replace them in the exact spot to minimize the potential that the largest ball happens to end up in the smallest star spot, etc. Best might be to see if new balls can be secured and someone did talk about it once. CDan - what say ye?.

As for Junk's comment. If true, I'd speculate it's simply because there are a lot of 80s that have grooves worn in their birfs now appearing with oversize tires, and hitting the trails. A birf that would run forever on the road with normal tires can indeed be blown on the trail. Remember, all it takes is ONE ball to stick instead of dropping in the groove and it will destroy the cage immediately.

It's a fine design - very tough. But like anything else mechanical it can be neglected and destroyed. There is nothing on this earth that is immune to that.

Doug
 
Pit,
I see that you posted a similar question on the 80sCool international list today.

Keep us posted on the consensus and let us know if the responses are consistent with advice you've been given here on ih8mud.
-B-
 
Doug, thanks for the response. That explains a lot. Beowulf, I thought it would be interesting to see what some of the guys from OZ and other international members thought, since they are tough on their 80's, 80cool responses track with comments of repack by at least 90K miles to be safe and watch for leaking knuckles, keep an eye on the diff fluid and check for clicking when turning (all signs that you need to do the repack). I still wonder the parts costs if you grenade a birfield what does a new one cost? I noticed that there are some birfields being made that are sealed to make them stronger. Anyone tried these and do they last longer?
 
Sealed 80 birfs? I can't imagine that is even possible. Ours are "sealed" vs typical GM CV units that are external and thus exposed to grit and water contamination, but I can't see an improvement upon that by sealing them again??

Doug
 
Pit,

I won't quote your prior posts in this thread but it sounds like you're mellowing a bit on the birf service that we've been suggesting to you. That's good.

>> I still wonder the parts costs if you grenade a birfield what does a new one cost? <<

If you're truly interested in the "worst case" then price out 2 new OEM birfields, 2 new axles, and 2 spindle assemblies. This would be on top of the 4 wheel bearings and 4 knuckle bearings that could be lost in the meley. I would guess you're looking at $1,500 per side plus labor. All this can be avoided with $300 in parts, grease, and a weekend getting to know your truck.

Didn't you read Klunky Kris' first post???

-B-
 
New birfs, $609.60 each
Short axle, $95.80
Long axle, $183.85
Spindles, $251.90 each.
 
Gee those axles are a steal!

Perhaps make a lamp with the long axle and a birf on one end. :)
 
$1702.65 before bearings and a blown birfield will probably take out some, if not all, of the 4 bearings per side.

That would buy you a Slee rear bumper & tyre carrier with change left over.

-B-
 
[quote author=Pitbull link=board=2;threadid=6260;start=msg62142#msg62142 date=1068646768]
Beowulf, I thought it would be interesting to see what some of the guys from OZ and other international members thought, since they are tough on their 80's, 80cool responses track with comments of repack by at least 90K miles to be safe and watch for leaking knuckles, [/quote]

If the 90K quote is from Oz it would be kilometers not miles right???

90K kilcks would be 55926 miles. that's less than what we've been saying :D

besides, I'm new to this forum, but got all my (limited) 80 knowledge from the 80cool list. That's where I heard 60K miles from. Also confirmed by knowlegable Toyota mechanics.

I'm not trying to sound sarcastic (leave that to Junk) but don't think it can't happen to you.

save yourself my aggrivation of braking a birf 4 hours from home in a gravel driveway. no wild wheeling there...
Also remember that unless you have the magic center diff lock switch you CANNOT drive it anywhere until you put a new birf in. otherwise you burn the VC in the transfer case.

Luckily I did have the switch, but I had to pull both axles, stuff the axle seals with towel filled rubber gloves, and break loose the impossible driveshaft bolts to pull the driveshaft for good measure.
This took me about 6 hours with multiple cruiser gurus giving guidance. (the only good news ::))
 
Or go part time and not worry about this ever again unless you beat on your junk! :D

I know Beo will counter this with the "best AWD system.." and I Agree with him...but hey!

We all gotta have a project or dream...some blow their trucks :D, some part time it...others add portals and tractor tires.
 

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