'79 one piece transfer question

[island45]

Thank you for the heads up on the output shaft. Of course I have not seen the one on my '79 yet, The shaft on this '78 does show some wear, but I would probably just use it as is because of the way I use this rig. I will post a pic of the output shaft tomorrow. As mentioned, it is just a 3 month a year drive around the island at 35 mph, take the grandkids out for ice cream, go visit a neighbor kind of rig. Now, on the other hand, the shaft (and gear) on my '79 could be considerably worse. So, I pull the back cover off the transmission, replace the shaft and gear (and the bearing?) from under the rig ... Sheesh, this could snowball.

 

[island45]

So the plot thickens... With a dial indicator set up on the back of the transmission and the T case's drive gear on the splines there is .220 backlash, yikes. With the gear slid back onto the unused portion of the shaft there is .080 backlash. Seems excessive. New shaft, I'm afraid so. New gear ? Of course with that discovered I set about looking at the other 'like new' parts. Well, they really do look good, as in all the gear teeth look new, the idler gears with the thrust washers at .008 clearance, but the high speed gear on the output shaft and it's sleeve are worn. Reversing the clutch sleeve helps (cheap maggot fix) but I guess I should look into the pricing. The transfer case part is not intimidating, in fact it's a great education on how it all works. Not thrilled about buying more parts as I stare into the abyss of 'retirement', but it's doable. It's opening up the back of the transmission to get at that output shaft that wears on me. Can someone talk me through it, explaining the anti rotation pin etc? Would also be nice to know what the alignment studs needed and a source for them. Thanks in advance. I think it was Admiral Yamamoto that said on or around Dec. 8th, 1941 "I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant". I was hoping not to go to war under my old landcruiser.

 

[POPO AGIE]

So the plot thickens... With a dial indicator set up on the back of the transmission and the T case's drive gear on the splines there is .220 backlash, yikes. With the gear slid back onto the unused portion of the shaft there is .080 backlash. Seems excessive. New shaft, I'm afraid so. New gear ? Of course with that discovered I set about looking at the other 'like new' parts. Well, they really do look good, as in all the gear teeth look new, the idler gears with the thrust washers at .008 clearance, but the high speed gear on the output shaft and it's sleeve are worn. Reversing the clutch sleeve helps (cheap maggot fix) but I guess I should look into the pricing. The transfer case part is not intimidating, in fact it's a great education on how it all works. Not thrilled about buying more parts as I stare into the abyss of 'retirement', but it's doable. It's opening up the back of the transmission to get at that output shaft that wears on me. Can someone talk me through it, explaining the anti rotation pin etc? Would also be nice to know what the alignment studs needed and a source for them. Thanks in advance. I think it was Admiral Yamamoto that said on or around Dec. 8th, 1941 "I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant". I was hoping not to go to war under my old landcruiser.

If you go to my thread on rebuilding my 4 speed and transfer case I documented it with photos. I had never done a transmission before and was glad I did the work myself.
Do you have the Toyota manual. They do a pretty good job of the disassembly and assembly process.

The special tool it shows for the out put shaft may be hard to find but if you get creative with the parts you have on had you can accomplish it. Terrain Tamer has a video of assembling a 4 speed transmission. I watched it a few times.

 

[island45]

After reading a lot of threads along with their photos, I plan to stay out of the transmission. I can live with some clunk. I received my Tcase set from Cruiser Outfitters last week, but decided to get a new input gear and a new high speed output gear and clutch sleeve. Looks like these parts arrived today. I fashioned a puller for the hi speed gear and bearing from materials I had here. My woodworking shop is about 60' from my truck fixing shop so grabbed some hard Eastern maple and a 16" dually split rim along with some long 1/2" bolts and pressed the shaft out. Took very little effort as it wasn't super tight. I searched and searched for any info about removing the needle bearing from the output shaft, but found very little written about it. I saw one guy used a 3/16" chisel to destroy his and another guy mentioned that removing it was the hardest part of rebuilding the Tcase. My thought is to use a chisel to cave in or collapse the cage. I get that the bore it's pressed into is a race and must be treated as such. Any advice on removing this bearing is welcome. I h

ave 90% of parts cleaned and hoping to reassemble soon. Here's a couple pics of today's 'press'.

 

[island45]

Dawn's early light finds me reading more info about removing this needle bearing. I now see there is indeed an inner race, so just getting the cage and needles out will not be enough. Orange45 made a note that on the split case, Toyota finally created a step area below this race so a puller would have something to work with. Last night before I read about the step I assumed there was a gap below this bearing so I made up a split carraige bolt puller like I have for years on pilot bearings etc. Takes a couple minutes and works great (if there is a recess down there). The wedge bottoms out and a couple more taps spreads out the head into the recess. Deep socket, and a nut/washer and you're money. Instead I find that there is no recess down there and I experience the 'letdown reflex', as the head of the carraige bolt comes up empty......

 

[Mark Jennings]

Did you get out the needle roller??? When I do it I just go to Home ‘Desperate’ get a Chain Saw sharpening stone for my Dremel, knock the needles out and grind out the race….in the past, trying to use expansion pullers, hammers and chisels, and a plethora of 4 letter words….I have ruined the shaft. And they are not as easy to come by as they once were. Now I just go straight to the Dremel and grind it out….

 

[POPO AGIE]

Dawn's early light finds me reading more info about removing this needle bearing. I now see there is indeed an inner race, so just getting the cage and needles out will not be enough. Orange45 made a note that on the split case, Toyota finally created a step area below this race so a puller would have something to work with. Last night before I read about the step I assumed there was a gap below this bearing so I made up a split carraige bolt puller like I have for years on pilot bearings etc. Takes a couple minutes and works great (if there is a recess down there). The wedge bottoms out and a couple more taps spreads out the head into the recess. Deep socket, and a nut/washer and you're money. Instead I find that there is no recess down there and I experience the 'letdown reflex', as the head of the carraige bolt comes up empty......View attachment 3576054View attachment 3576055View attachment 3576056

I used a small bearing puller to reach in and pull that bearing out of the shaft.

 

[island45]

Thanks Mark, I did get it out. Somewhere I have a dremel set from 1966, Christmas in the 8th grade. and I searched for an hour but I must have loaned it to one of my kids. The first try earlier this morning with the split carraige bolt got me thinking, but I had to head to a jobsite. This afternoon I decided to try a variation on a theme with a 7/16" hex head bolt inserted headfirst into the still intact needle bearing. It was a snug fit with the six points of the hex in between the rollers. I slotted it and inserted a wedge and tapped it dowwards til snug. I drew it out with a wrench, which pulled the twisted cage out quite neatly. At that point I noticed the sturdy lip at the ends of the race was still undamaged so I made a thicker wedge which expanded the bolt head further until it was now snug with the inside of the race. I held my breath as I replaced the deep socket and now I could feel some serious resistance as I cranked the inner race upwards. I used a band saw to make the slot and wedge but a thin cuttoff wheel would work as well. Years ago a hacksaw worked fine. I feel this could be repeated and the results would be the same.
One side note. I slotted the head across the middle of two flats, thus a 'point' ,was the tool getting a grip into the cage. With the cage out I radiused the two opposing points off on my grinder so I had more surface area to grab against the inward lip on the race. I felt the sharp point's small contact area might crease the lip upwards instead of drawing out the race. Pictures to follow

 

[island45]

Pictures of the 7/16" home made bearing puller.

 

[Mark Jennings]

Pictures of the 7/16" home made bearing puller. View attachment 3576449View attachment 3576450View attachment 3576451

Pretty fricken cool and very very clever!!!

 

[pb4ugo]

So, you put the wedge in the hole 1st and tapped the split bolt on to the wedge to expand it?

 

[island45]

Thank you Mark for the kind words, and pb4, the wedge was inserted so it was held by friction, but not enough to spread the gap. Then inserted so the wedge bottoms out, and as the bolt is tapped further inwards it spreads. Of course there is a nut over the bolt's threads and a brass hammer is used. I first came up with this for pulling a pilot bearing when I replaced an F with a 2F in my gravel driveway in the early '90s. It's a 25 mile round trip to the nearest town so over the last 45 years it has made more sense to make do. Besides, I'm cheap.

 

[pb4ugo]

Thank you Mark for the kind words, and pb4, the wedge was inserted so it was held by friction, but not enough to spread the gap. Then inserted so the wedge bottoms out, and as the bolt is tapped further inwards it spreads. Of course there is a nut over the bolt's threads and a brass hammer is used. I first came up with this for pulling a pilot bearing when I replaced an F with a 2F in my gravel driveway in the early '90s. It's a 25 mile round trip to the nearest town so over the last 45 years it has made more sense to make do. Besides, I'm cheap.

I love it, I learned something today. Thanks. I live in the country, so ingenuity and using what you have handy goes a long way.

 

[island45]

Thank you guys, I press onwards and now have the front drive nosecone put together and more parts cleaned. My day job has been getting in the way of progress, but I should have more time next week. I mistakenly ordered a clutch sleeve for the front drive instead of the Hi/Low sleeve. Dang, but at least Cruiser Outfitters got the right one shipped out yesterday, and it looks like that is one of the parts that happens late in the process so I still have plenty of painting and assembly work I can still do this weekend. Gotta say this new shop space I have been building sure beats that old gravel driveway. Nothing like a good fire in the stove and this 'spotify' music thing my kids got me started with. What'll they think of next???

 

[Living in the Past]

I worked for an employer that had an annual tool allowance. It was designed to replace broken hand tools employees were require to provide. Never had a shortage of standard hand tools and would use it for specialty tools. One is a three piece set design to remove a threaded male.pipe end that broke in a female fitting. You would insert it into the pipe when tighten a bolt that expanded three bar. Then would use a wrench on the main section to thread out. Wondering how this would work if a a slide hammer on the bolt to shock it out or possibly some type of puller. If the three bars would fit inside the lip of cage and tighten enough against roller bearings it might work.

 

[island45]

If those bars were 3/4"-1" long they would would lock into the empty race once the needles and cage were easily disposed of. And I bet a slide hammer would make light work of it once you got a good purchase on that top lip of the race. I can almost picture a minature exhaust tubing expander with the center expander 'bolt' having a welded eye to hook the slide hammer onto. One thing I never saw was a picture in the FSM of Toyota's SST for removing that needle bearing. Edit: This complicated minature expander was me overthinking. Who me? I decided to make a really simple, quick and hopefully effective extractor anyone could make in their garage for about a buck. Free if you have coffee cans full of bolts. That's next.

 

[island45]

I have arrived at my simplest method of extracting that bearing. It's back to the carraige bolt method I use for pilot bearings, but with a twist.

1) Using a dental pick, ice pick, small screwdriver, your choice. Pry the cage and needles from the bearing.
2) Take a 3/8 carraige bolt, most any length, protect threads with tape, vinyl tubing etc. Chuck into drill and introduce the head to the wheel on your grinder, belt sander or other similar device. I like a bit of a back cut. When it will just pass the lip on the bearing race, grind no more.
3) Cut a slot about 3/4"-1" through the head and down the stem. Cutoff wheel, hacksaw or bandsaw. I found keeping it chucked in the drill makes a good holder for this.
4) Cut a wedge about an inch long from any available steel. I sawed mine off a piece of 3/8" hardware store key stock. Scant 1/4" on fat end tapered to zero.
5) Place the wedge lightly into the slot just enough to hold it in. Tap the bolt into the bore and tap only until the head expands and contacts the inside of race snugly. One more tap and it will become cocked to the side. PITA.
6) I have a 3/8" threaded tip for my slide hammer and I'm sure that would work nicely and be simpler, but unfortunately mine is done and I may never need to do this task again so that'll be up to one of you to try. If you don't have a slide hammer, use the 3/8" nut, washer and a suitable 3/8 drive socket to crank it out.

This should be an improvement over the one I made yesterday, with more surface gripping the race's lip.

 

[island45]

With the summer's end in sight I still have not replaced the gearboxes and have been driving 'Old Growly' as is. Remember that 276 stroker flathead V8 I mentioned building earlier in this thread? I decided to mate it to a Borg Warner T-5 OD 5 speed that came out of an S-10 pickup. I was able to make an adapter plate from some scrap 1" aluminum plate, fab up a crossmember etc, etc. Of course it took longer than expected. Back to the toyota, I am still concerned about the trans output shaft. I pulled the pto cover off the '79s existing installed t case and find output shaft/gear play about the same as in the '78 components. I am just concerned that even though I just rebuilt this case, the noise (and uncertainty) may continue. I have learned a lot in the past year dealing with my ford and toyota drivetrains, and am now wondering if I might be better off installing this complete FJ 60 setup instead. The donor vehicle had 85,000 miles in the mid '90s when it was wrecked. Yesterday I pulled the split case and it trans outa the shed and pressure washed it. I have searched the subject and read much about it, but still I have some questions....
1) If I were to pull the current trans/transfer and install the split setup without a parking brake (for now) would my existing driveshaft bolt up? A mechanic friend offered to swap it out with me using his lift, and I'd need to drive it home.
2) I am pretty well versed in building trans mount crossmembers and to me that means I eliminate the existing rear mounts off the bellhousing. Is that correct?
3) In the opinion of the panel of experts here, is the split case considerably quieter?
4) I have good parking brake assemblies here to choose from. If I buy the conversion output assembly from a vendor here, would I just buy the casting part? And after that conversion am I looking at altering the length of the driveshaft?

Thanks in advance, Gary

 

[numby]

Back to the toyota, I am still concerned about the trans output shaft. I pulled the pto cover off the '79s existing installed t case and find output shaft/gear play about the same as in the '78 components. I am just concerned that even though I just rebuilt this case, the noise (and uncertainty) may continue. I have learned a lot in the past year dealing with my ford and toyota drivetrains, and am now wondering if I might be better off installing this complete FJ 60 setup instead. The donor vehicle had 85,000 miles in the mid '90s when it was wrecked. Yesterday I pulled the split case and it trans outa the shed and pressure washed it. I have searched the subject and read much about it, but still I have some questions....

Marv Specter always said that transmissions need a new output shaft at 100K miles. You're just 15K short. The real determining factor would be the T-case input gear play. Your call.

1) If I were to pull the current trans/transfer and install the split setup without a parking brake (for now) would my existing driveshaft bolt up? A mechanic friend offered to swap it out with me using his lift, and I'd need to drive it home.
2) I am pretty well versed in building trans mount crossmembers and to me that means I eliminate the existing rear mounts off the bellhousing. Is that correct?

The whole later assembly can hang off the back of the block and bell housing just like the original. No need for a new crossmember... if I'm understanding you correctly.

4) I have good parking brake assemblies here to choose from. If I buy the conversion output assembly from a vendor here, would I just buy the casting part? And after that conversion am I looking at altering the length of the driveshaft?

Thanks in advance, Gary

Firstly you need the later style split case output bearing retainer (NLA) and then the shaft and correct parking drum (still available). Pretty sure the split case set up is longer so DS mods may be necessary. I don't think the OAL of the Spllt case matches that of the one-pice case w/ parking brake.

 

[island45]

Got a fun summer of driving with the Foyota, although with it's still growling old drivetrain. But a new winter for projects is just around the corner. From some inexact but decent measurements taken this morning, I'm finding that the 55's OAL from machined forward face of tranny to the rear face of the brake drum is about 21 5/8", The same setup from the 60, which is actually shorter measures close to 20 5/8". Maybe I could drive home from my mechanic friend's place with an inch more splines showing. From the front face of the trans to the front driveshft face is about 4 1/4" on both the 55 and 60, so driving home with front wheel drive is a no brainer. But, what comes into my head is that a 1" spacer, maybe even a 1/2" spacer between the flanges could actually incorporate a brake rotor. Now I'd only need a place to anchor a Willwood manual lever operated caliper for an E brake. I used the wilwoods on my skidsteer with simple fabbed mounts and some used honda rotors. Very effective setup. I'm wondering if others have done this mod. The need to make up an inch or so leads nicely into the disc parking/ebrake.