70 Series - best brake upgrades (1 Viewer)

[prwillard2]

Larger caliper = larger pad = more friction = more heat = better stopping power until the rotor is fully heat soaked, etc, etc, etc.


For me, the availability of 4Runner parts plus the ease of installation made a winning combo.
Yes I had to trim the backing plate with an angle grinder’s cutoff wheel.
Nothing exact or precise about the cuts.

Did your larger brakes fit over the 15" or 16" OEM wheels?

 

[Omrib]

Larger caliper = larger pad = more friction = more heat = better stopping power until the rotor is fully heat soaked, etc, etc, etc.


For me, the availability of 4Runner parts plus the ease of installation made a winning combo.
Yes I had to trim the backing plate with an angle grinder’s cutoff wheel.
Nothing exact or precise about the cuts.

I would "buy it"....
Your solution is working for you so it is first hand experience, shared.

Also, from experience, Toyota braking systems are usually quite redundant.

I have tested Hilux and 200 series vehicles to 40% over GVWR, and passed R13 (cold and hot) for European regulation with OEM systems on numerous occasions.

Going with upgraded rotors like DBA or other good brands can help with heat dicipation and would probably last longer than OEM rotors, while staying within OEM spec.

I have found that most modern truck brake systems would not fit 15" wheels and some would not fit certain geometry 16" wheels.

Although going with increased diameter rotors is the best way to go with the minimum heat "cost" and max efficiency, it is sometimes not possible to find the correct tire and wheel combo to support your design (especially for high load of 120 and higher load index), which may push you to larger tires thus loosing the larger rotors mechanical advantage.
Then, you end up with very similar performance at a very high priced system for initial costs as well as maintenance costs.

To emphasize this point, I have decreased tire size on at least one project just so I could find a sufficiently weight rated tire which would pass braking performance tests (by reducing effective wheel radius) in comparison to rotors size.
This was done on an American made vehicle with many potential braking systems upgrades from Wilwood and other, but could not get and effective solution due to available tire sizes.

Realizing a new desined tire would cost over 1M USD, sends you back to find more creative solutions.

Sorry for the long jabber, just wanted to share my experience of the reality of the balance between theoretically best efficiency goals and real life parts availability, combined with with thorough performance tests and good synch for expectations with client and test authorities.

Good thread with much interesting details.
Good luck
Omri

 

[jblueridge]

Did your larger brakes fit over the 15" or 16" OEM wheels

I have aftermarket 16” wheels. 16x8, to be exact.
The bigger calipers don’t rub.

 

[cruisermatt]

The 86-95 4runner calipers that are being referenced a lot in this thread are not a bigger pad, at least not in any meaningful amount. Just a bigger piston.

I’m not sure why there is discussion about wheel and tire availability, there are dozens of OEM Toyota 16-17” wheels with deep backspace that fit the larger kate model Toyota brake setups. This has been done on 60 series for over a decade now.

Furthermore, no one is doing actual accurate stopping distance tests, and most reports are from people who have only driven one or two Land Cruisers ever and just replaced their +20 year old junk with new parts.

 

[cruisermatt]

Not sure i buy that, what I have always understood bigger calipers grab harder so long as you supply more fluid, i:e bigger master.

Now, with that bigger caliper on the same size rotor you can increase heat, brake fade and rotor warping, so I agree its not good practice and a compromised design, but I don't think your statement on its own is accurate.

Yes you have more hydraulic force but the actual surface area is the same and with the same rotor the leverage on the wheel is the same. The piston diameter in the caliper is multiplied by the rotor diameter, number of pistons and friction, so an ~8mm increase in piston diameter (4mm difference per caliper x 2) only has a small effect on overall brake torque, yes it is there but not even close when compared to a rotor that is 30mm larger in diameter with appropriately matched larger caliper to that rotor (I think the 00-06 tundra pistons are 56mm, 60/70 series pistons are 42ish mm and 4runner are like 46mm?, don’t have specs in front of me at moment).

 

[sleepydad69]

I think there is a lot of confusion around brakes. This guy does a great job of explaining why most everybody is wrong.

big brake

also

 

[Tigris]

I think there is a lot of confusion around brakes. This guy does a great job of explaining why most everybody is wrong.

big brake

also

Funny how I was contemplating posting a link to this exact video but said screw it, I am not opening that can of worms! let them get bigger brakes

My 2¢: If your brake system is properly functional, the only meaningful upgrade is the kind of tires you are running... Also please don't hit me!

 

[cruisermatt]

so no one is putting larger tires on 70 series? Is that seriously what the consensus is?

 

[sleepydad69]

so no one is putting larger tires on 70 series? Is that seriously what the consensus is?

if your truck can lock up the wheels, it's not going stop you any faster by putting bigger brakes on.
if your truck cannot lock up the wheels then yes it needs more bacon thrown @ it.
if your towing heavy loads then again you might need to toss some more bacon in it.

99% of the people get big brake kits and they don't need it IMO. just service your existing brake system and make sure it works like it should.

 

[Ozzy75]

Not sure i buy that, what I have always understood bigger calipers grab harder so long as you supply more fluid, i:e bigger master.

Now, with that bigger caliper on the same size rotor you can increase heat, brake fade and rotor warping, so I agree its not good practice and a compromised design, but I don't think your statement on its own is accurate.

Question... the previous owner of my Ute upgraded the calipers to HZJ75 calipers and I brought a HJ75 Master cylinder would this possibly be the reason why the top of my brakes feel like air when I push it and get brake fluid resistance more half way through the pedal travel... been chasing this strange issue for while now and first time I've thought my HJ75 master wouldn't work correctly with my HZJ brakes after reading this comment...

 

[cruisermatt]

if your truck can lock up the wheels, it's not going stop you any faster by putting bigger brakes on.
if your truck cannot lock up the wheels then yes it needs more bacon thrown @ it.
if your towing heavy loads then again you might need to toss some more bacon in it.

99% of the people get big brake kits and they don't need it IMO. just service your existing brake system and make sure it works like it should.

Yes I am aware of all that.

stock Cruiser brakes usually can not lock more then a 33" x10 tire

 

[cruisermatt]

Question... the previous owner of my Ute upgraded the calipers to HZJ75 calipers and I brought a HJ75 Master cylinder would this possibly be the reason why the top of my brakes feel like air when I push it and get brake fluid resistance more half way through the pedal travel... been chasing this strange issue for while now and first time I've thought my HJ75 master wouldn't work correctly with my HZJ brakes after reading this comment...

if the master cylinder is a smaller bore size in relation to what was originally spec'ed with the calipers then yes the pedal will feel softer. Basic hydraulics

 

[RHINO]

Question... the previous owner of my Ute upgraded the calipers to HZJ75 calipers and I brought a HJ75 Master cylinder would this possibly be the reason why the top of my brakes feel like air when I push it and get brake fluid resistance more half way through the pedal travel... been chasing this strange issue for while now and first time I've thought my HJ75 master wouldn't work correctly with my HZJ brakes after reading this comment...

I'm not familiar with the specs, but if I assume the HZJ is bigger stuff than HJ, then yes, absolutely.

 

[jblueridge]

been chasing this strange issue for while now

Do a search on MUD for Felde’s info on the LSPV.
He describes how to bleed the air out.

 

[ATL Cruiser]

Thank you to everyone that posted in this thread. Great discussion.

Update from my side: I went ahead and replaced the entire LSPV system in the rear. It was only about $100 in parts and super easy. I even sandblasted all the brackets and NLA parts associated. I followed it up by flushing the entire system with the machine (I don't like pedal flushing old master cylinders. It tends to destroy them.)

This made a MASSIVE difference. Immediately upon pulling out of the shop, the rear brakes were screaming. I bet the rear calipers hadn't moved in 15 years, and the fronts were doing all the work. Now, when I hit the brakes hard, the all the brakes lock up fairly quickly. Much better performance. Now, I just need to dial in the LSPV to get the fronts to lock first.

Thank you again for all the knowledge shared in this thread.

 

[prwillard2]

Thank you to everyone that posted in this thread. Great discussion.

Update from my side: I went ahead and replaced the entire LSPV system in the rear. It was only about $100 in parts and super easy. I even sandblasted all the brackets and NLA parts associated. I followed it up by flushing the entire system with the machine (I don't like pedal flushing old master cylinders. It tends to destroy them.)

This made a MASSIVE difference. Immediately upon pulling out of the shop, the rear brakes were screaming. I bet the rear calipers hadn't moved in 15 years, and the fronts were doing all the work. Now, when I hit the brakes hard, the all the brakes lock up fairly quickly. Much better performance. Now, I just need to dial in the LSPV to get the fronts to lock first.

Thank you again for all the knowledge shared in this thread.

Can you are the parts you used for the LSPV system refresh?

 

[ATL Cruiser]

Can you are the parts you used for the LSPV system refresh?

Yes, of course. It was $200, actually, sorry. The only parts you actually need are:
47920-60050 (cable) $55
47910-26040 (valve) $125

Optional
47937-60010 (plate) $5

Toyota also still sells the rebuild kit if you really, really want to save money.
04477-60010 $40

This all fits my 77. I have no idea if this will fit your vehicle. I use ToyoDIY and PartSouq for my diagrams.

 

[sleepydad69]

Yes, of course. It was $200, actually, sorry. The only parts you actually need are:
47920-60050 (cable) $55
47910-26040 (valve) $125

Optional
47937-60010 (plate) $5

Toyota also still sells the rebuild kit if you really, really want to save money.
04477-60010 $40

This all fits my 77. I have no idea if this will fit your vehicle. I use ToyoDIY and PartSouq for my diagrams.

I just got done doing my fronts after the 2023 great hub disaster. new calipers, rotors. sucked about 1/2 bottle of fluid thru. got some really nasty stuff out. my fronts are working about 2x better now. I will have to add this onto the ever growing list of things that need to be done.

I don't event want to look inside my master... guessing those pistons inside are shot.

 

[ntz1111]

Not to upgrade or anything but does anyone have the (Brembo?) OEM front brake pad part no for the HZJ78? I could nt find anything anywhere.

 

[mattressking]

Learn how to engine brake smoothly and don’t text and drive. Big brakes are for inattentive drivers or being on the track.