4WD Question - Proudly Showing my Noobiosity

[JeffJ60]

Got stuck in the Cleveland Snow today in my 87FJ60... Did I mention that minivans were effortlessly passing by??? My world has gone topsy-turvy...

Hubs were locked. 4WD engaged (though its functioning is now seriously in question). When trying to get up a .001% grade, the rear wheels spun but neither front moved at all.

Ended up cramming all sorts of branches, sticks, and even my floor mats under the rears to get the initial traction on this embarrassingly flat surface. When I got back to the garage, I engaged the gears, locked the hubs, and the engaged 4WD, crawled under and could not move the rotate the front driveline. When I unlocked the hubs and disengaged 4WD the front driveline spun freely... Gotta think the hubs are fine, so WTF?

The only thing I can think of is my 14yr old tires are garbage despite the massive tread on them. NTB is installing 33x.95x15 BFG AT/KO's on Friday when they get in...

Thoughts? Even with the ****py tires I would think the front wheel or wheels would engage. Don't you usually have one rear and one front (diagonal from each other) spin in 4WD?

 

[JeffJ60]

How do you test a 4WD solenoid? Perhaps it has failed and I am not getting vacuum?

 

[Butt Ugly Chuck]

Only 36k on your odometer? Maybe it's just not broken in yet

I've been wrong before so could be this time too, but I thought 60's were all manually engaged? Does yours have push-button 4wd?

Butt

 

[RockDoc]

In the driveway, put the transfer in 4H with the hubs dis-engaged. Crawl underneath and see if the front drive shaft will turn (it shouldn't). If it does, try again in 4L. If these check out, try engaging the hubs with the transfer in 2H, and see if you can turn the drive shaft then (you shouldn't be able to).

This should help you track down what isn't engaging.

Stock Aisin hubs on it? The 60 doesn't have the solenoids, just the 62 (joy for me).

 

[CruisinFJ60]

In the driveway, put the transfer in 4H with the hubs dis-engaged. Crawl underneath and see if the front drive shaft will turn (it shouldn't). If it does, try again in 4L. If these check out, try engaging the hubs with the transfer in 2H, and see if you can turn the drive shaft then (you shouldn't be able to).

This should help you track down what isn't engaging.

Stock Aisin hubs on it? The 60 doesn't have the solenoids, just the 62.

exactly what i recomend.

most likely your tires are so old and hard you are not getting any bite in the slick conditions.

oh by the way dunno what yalls weather looked like but my uncle that lives near the ohio and indiana border said it was snowin so hard he couldnt see across the street! Wish i was there to do some snow wheeling!!!

 

[JeffJ60]

OK...

With tranny in 1st...

Hubs engaged 4 LO = no turn of drive line
Hubs engaged 4 HI = no turn of drive line
Hube engaged 2H = free turning drive line!!!

and the prognosis is...???

 

[RockDoc]

If I read that right, hubs engaged for all tests? Then your hubs (or one anyway) is not functioning properly. These are the stock Aisin hubs? They may just just be stiff inside and need to be disassembled, cleaned, lubed and reinstalled. I'll see if I can find a thread to help you out on that.

 

[RockDoc]

From the FAQ section:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyo...ng-aisin-locking-hub-locking-hub-rebuild.html

Good photos, but didn't read it to see how the write up is (assume it would be good if it's in the FAQ).

I did mine a year ago using the FSM as the primary resource. Just go slow and keep straight in your mind how things came apart. When you are reassembling, there are some orientation and positioning things that must be right to have them function correctly, so compare what you are doing with the photos in the thread.

 

[JeffJ60]

RockDoc... I don't know if this matters to the prognosis, but I had the hubs diengaged for the 4HI/4LO tests... I screwed up when I typed the post...

Let me try this again...
Hubs disengaged 4 LO = no turn of drive line
Hubs disengaged 4 HI = no turn of drive line
Hubs engaged 2H = free turning drive line


Think it's the same answer - rebuild the stock hubs?
Thanks for the link.

 

[Texx]

Just find some gravel, without snow. Put in lo 4, with hubs locked. Cut front wheel so you can see the tire, and peel out. This should have nothing to do with your tires unless you were on black ice.

 

[cody c]

i had this happen before a couple times, one of your hubs isnt engaging. i suspect the old grease and the cold weather arent letting the collar move into a locked position. it helps to have the hubs locked for a while while driving before you need it. or repack your hubs with a good grease.

 

[jemezcrusher]

X 10 on the hubs...... Gease is probably more like wax. Disengaged, spring compressed, gears held in separated position. "Locking" the hubs changes the alignment in the hub allowing the spring tension to push the gears (collars) together. If these are not used somewhat regularly, the grease can get waxey and stick everything together.

 

[JeffJ60]

Thanks guys...

Texx - I did this on the snow (cutting the wheel and peeling out - fronts did not move. Would gravel so anything different (more resistance perhaps?)


Difficulty factor on a 1-10 scale of the rebuild? I have the sockets, and screwdrivers, anything else needed? As for grease, recommendations? The hubs literally just pop off once the outer bolts are removed, yes? I do not have snap ring pliers, are these mandatory for his rebuild? I have studied the FAQ link RockDoc provided... Any others you guys recommend reading prior to diving in?

Mud rules. Thanks for the help everyone...
I will photodocument my follies...

 

[dfmorse]

Use Amsoil grease in the hubs; will help them engage in cold weather.

...

 

[Dynosoar]

The definitive test is to remove the rear drive shaft place in 4wd and see if your front is working. It is only 8 bolts and about 10 min. to remove.


Dynosoar

 

[JeffJ60]

Would peeling out in the snow in 4lo (with visibility to the front wheels) tell me as well? I think Iwill rebuild the hubs anyway - afterall, I got into cruisers to learn more about this exact kind of stuff, so I suppose we'll see if I have wax rather than grease in the hubs. Whether that's the culprit or not, it can't hurt and all I can do is learn. Heck - I have Phaedrus and MJM near by if I totally screw up!

 

[RockDoc]

From the FSM

 

[RockDoc]

and

 

[agent orange]

Those pics make it sound way harder than it is. Yank the 6 bolts that hold the outer cover on, the sliding piece that engages the hub comes with it. Scoop all the gook out, reinstall (30 seconds), if it doesnt work proceed with further disassembly and removal of old grease. There is little you could screw up, aside from forgetting how to put it back together if you really break it down.

 

[JeffJ60]

Update - took a bit of a break from work today to address the hub issue. Driver side was clean as can be, which made me happy and sad. I figured if this one was so clean, surely the other will be too, and my problem is something more severe than a dirty hub... then... off came the second and it looked like a bees nest had been built in there! The springs were crusted with snot and the gears were one huge mess. The difference was so great it almost makes me think the driver side was replaced by the PO.

Took it apart, soaked in degreaser for awhile, scrubbed off the gunk, rebuilt and packed it with white lithium grease. It slid back and forth so easliy from free to locked and back that I was sure I screwed something up, but it engaged and disengaged the 4HI and 4LO with ease.

Took it into the snow (yes, where I got stuck) and proceeded to plow through with zero challenge. MAN, what a difference. I even cut the wheel to peel out and threw snow all over the place with the front wheel!

Thanks RockDoc, agent orange, texx, etc... REally appreciate the insights!

Mud rules.