454 into 60

[coolotisdog]

I've only seen ram's horn manifolds for the SBC. You might try looking for manifolds that fit the old school corvette 454 or BBC. I don't know if the manifolds off a 396,427, 454 are interchangeable?

The ron davis radiators are nice (I have one, but as you say they are $$).

I think you better give yourself max room between the radiator core and the waterpump...move rear of engine back against firewall best you can, so you can run the mechanical radiator fan * fan clutch combination...

I think cooling is going to be a real challenge. I know you probally could get a BB radiator off a pickup in there but it certaily would require some modificaitons, and then not sure you would be able to get air flow across the radiator properly. Do you have plans on fabbing a radiator shroud out of aluminium sheet or something?

It will a nice powerhouse if you can keep it cool. If you can run the stock exhaust that's what I would do. Seems like you would have some decent clearance with an auto trans?

Yeah I got the stock exhaust manifold to work for me so I think its gonna be alright.

Right now as it sits there is about an inche between the valve covers and the firewall, and thats about as close as I can get it I think. At that, the motor barely fits with enough room for the radiator.

I really don't think cooling is going to be that big of a challenge. I may be jinxing myself here, but The bb radiator I pulled off the truck is only 6 inches wider on each side than the stock radiator. I set it in there before I started pulling the old motor out and it looks like it is going to fit. I do however agree with you on the air flow being an issue. I have the fan shroud off the old truck also so I was just going to use that if I could get the radiator to fit. I don't really have too many options because I already have the motor as far back as I can. So if all else fails I guess its over to ron davis to pony up the big bucks. That aluminum radiator would look sick in there anyways.

 

[Elbert]

check your radiator and shroud setup... as I recall the engine is not going to sit dead center with the radiatoor (square left to tright and top to bottom) as it does generally speaking with the GM truck. So you may want to rough up some ideas before you set the engine firmly in place.

If you can make the large GM radiator work, then that is probally your best solution....THe LC have a pretty narrow profile and grill area.

 

[coolotisdog]

check your radiator and shroud setup... as I recall the engine is not going to sit dead center with the radiatoor (square left to tright and top to bottom) as it does generally speaking with the GM truck. So you may want to rough up some ideas before you set the engine firmly in place.

If you can make the large GM radiator work, then that is probally your best solution....THe LC have a pretty narrow profile and grill area.

Yeah that's not bad advice.
With a Turbo 400 and np205 combo would I be fine with just a crossmember for the transfer case or is one for the transmission gonna be a necessity also?

 

[Elbert]

I don't know on the crossmember question...maybe someone with more experience can commment. I would thinkt that one crossmember is fine?

I think the crossmember / mount is generally for the transmission and not for the transfer case?

 

[ntsqd]

snip......

One question I have is on the transmission. Does anybody know how the kickdown works on the th400? I got a b&m kickdown switch, but if the motor was hooked up to a th400 before, shouldn't it already have some sort of kickdown switch on the carb somewhere? I do remember some sort of cable near the throttle that was hooked up to some vacuum diaphragm. I wonder if that had something to do with the kickdown, or if it was some sort of cruise control. As far as I understood, the switch sends a signal to the electrical kickdown on the tranny, and thats how it works on the 400. I think the 350 is different. Any knowledge on this subject would be appreciated.

TH400 kick-down is done electrically. The switch is attached to the throttle pedal assembly such that it switches at WOT or something close to that. Any vacuum hose(s) near the throttle pedal would've been part of the cruise control system.

Usual is for there to be a cross member under the trans to t/c adapter. That is how every GM 4x4 that I've worked on was done OE. I'm a big fan of using only 3 mounts. Don't make the trans mount too wide. The idea is that 3 points make a plane. 4 points create a torsion, like how a 4 legged barstool nearly always wobbles while a 3 legged barstool doesn't. That torsion or 'wobble' breaks stuff.
Also, if there are the bosses for it, use or make the strut that runs from the t/c bosses on the side of the case next to the front output up to the lower bellhousing to engine block bolt. That strut is frequently left off by the unknowning and can result in a broken trans case near where the adapter bolts to it. I know that the NP208 & 241's come with this strut, not sure about the 205.

I have one of the really wide GM truck radiators (from a '79 3/4t 4WD Suburban) that I wanted to use for my swap. It could be made to fit, but I'd have to cut the core support body mount gussets completely off. I'd rather not do that, I figure that Toyota put those there for good reason and I'm making this swap for the long term.

There's a trick way to make fan shrouds. Look into how some of the custom formed/shaped speaker enclosures are made. Basically you cut a piece of plywood to fit the radiator and another in a disc 1" larger than the fan's OD. Using scrap wood screw/nail/glue/whatever the fan disc centered on the fan and spaced out slightly past it's center while the radiator piece is in place. Then take some stretchy fabric, pull it over the fan piece and staple it to the edges of the radiator piece. "Paint" the fabric with fiberglass resin, then start laminating with glass & more resin until you have something that looks like a fan shroud. Let cure and then trim to work. I've seen a couple articles online that were step by step on how exactly to do this.

 

[Elbert]

Do the old school GM transfer cases have seperate mounts...I guess so based on what you are saying ntsqd.. I believe on the GM pickup I had it only had one mount, and the transfer case just bolted to th ened of the trans...but this was on an IFS truck, not one with a solid front axle.

I'm not an old school guy with 4wheel drive so I really have no advice on that.

 

[ntsqd]

Typically GM puts the mount under the transfer case adapter. Some adapters have two distinct mounts bolted to them (laterally spaced apart), but they're bolted to a cross member and the adapter only. I can't recall ever seeing a stock set-up that was different from this.

Said differently, I know of no GM transfer case that is not cantilever mounted. They all hang off the back of the transmission.

 

[coolotisdog]

yeah with the th400 and the np205 you basically have one crossmember that sits underneath the adapter between the transfer case and the tranny. I swear I have seen guys run a crossmember for each, but maybe I'm just totally confused.

On another note, I got the drivetrain put all together today but it looks like the torque converter I ordered doesn't mate up to the flywheel right, so I gotta call them tomorrow and figure things out.

 

[brokenparts]

TMR customs makes a couple different styles to support the 205. This is how I ended up doing mine:

Link:
atlas support ring

 

[ntsqd]

I was going to say that usually when you see a second cross member it is because of a doubler, usually a 203, being installed.

I think it's a bad idea. Decide where you want to support the trans & t/c from and do it with one mount. With more than one rear mount ANY twist in the frame will put a huge loading on the die-cast transmission case.

 

[coolotisdog]

Yeah I agree, I'm just running the one mount underneath the adapter

I was going to say that usually when you see a second cross member it is because of a doubler, usually a 203, being installed.

I think it's a bad idea. Decide where you want to support the trans & t/c from and do it with one mount. With more than one rear mount ANY twist in the frame will put a huge loading on the die-cast transmission case.

 

[coolotisdog]

Got the motor/tranny/transfer case in and built a crossmember. Also ordered some of those roundeyes just now since one of my headlights broke. Tomorrow I will tackle swapping out the rear axle and try and get the radiator in. From there its just hooking up a few misc things and turning this thing over. I'll try and post some pics tomorrow.

 

[Elbert]

what are the plans to cool this thing?

 

[Kurtis]

454 truck radiator and a 6 blade mechanical bb fan. Coolotisdog got the 14 bolt axle almost prepped for new perches before the grinder burned up. I worked on some of the relays and wiring then we hooked up the power steering. It was pretty convenient on this motor the stock land cruiser fittings worked great with the 454 pump. The hose only took a little bending to work as well.

If it won't go in or doesn't keep it cool Ron Davis is right down the street. We get lucky in Az and have some really great shops local.

 

[coolotisdog]

I was able to get the radiator off the donor truck to fit. I had to trim a little bit on the inner wheel wells to get it to slide down far enough, and I also had to trim probably an inch away off the front clip just around the body mount area in order to get it to slide forward far enough. I then fabbed up some brackets and welded them to the frame to hold the radiator up. I think this radiator will actually work well, because its from the donor truck, and on top of that it doesn't look like its actually going to be blocked too much by the grill. On top of that it has the built in trans cooler so its a win win situation. For getting a big block in there and that was all the trimming I've had to do so far, I'm satisfied. It should be running pretty soon, I just need to hook everything up. Kurtis pretty much did all the wiring that was really necessary so its just a matter of making some top brackets for the radiator and turning it over.

 

[coolotisdog]

Here is a pic of how I made the crossmember for the transfer case, it's a pretty simple design, cost me like 20 bucks in steel and a couple hours of grinding. It'll do the job. I still need to paint it but whatev.

 

[Elbert]

are you going to see about getting A/C functional?

 

[coolotisdog]

are you going to see about getting A/C functional?

Yeah I am, not right this second but after I get it driving I def will. It's like 115 here right now so its a necessity. My friend Kurtis did a TBI swap last year, and he had a guy here in town make some lines and braze in the ports on both the high and low side, so I'm just gonna do that. I need to get a chevy compressor though, originally I was planning on fabbing a bracket to hold my toyota compressor, but I don't know, I'm pretty much leaning toward the chevy compressor.

Another thing I did with my 2f and I am planning on doing with this motor is running it with no thermostat. Here is Arizona it isn't really a necessity because even in the winters we hardly ever see anything below 45 and I do not plan on moving up north any time soon. On a carbed motor I don't think it makes much difference because there is no computer to read temp sensor and adjust. I have read up on this and it seems like people are split on this decision. Some people say its a HUGE mistake and that your engine will actually run hotter because the coolant is flowing too fast to absorb any heat. Other people say its better because your coolant is constantly flowing. I seem to lean toward the latter, and so that's why I'm not using a thermostat. I guess we'll find out right?

 

[Rambrush]

I have always believed the theory that no t stat = water moving to fast to properly absorb the heat from the cooling jacket etc. Guess we shall find out.

 

[Elbert]

I don't get into the various debates about the thermostat... Look at this way...what vehicle comes from the factory without a thermostat? Thermostats rarely fail and there is no real reason not to run one. I generallyt think that if you don't have a thermosat it allows the engine to run too cool.

People will argue the merits of all kind of stuff... I've just never seen a vehicle that was water cooled not be designed to run a thermostat.

I find nothing gained by not running a thermosat.