40 series front springs on a 62- should I reverse the shackle too?

[olija]

Hi guys. Pretty technical question here. I have a 1989 FJ62 that I am slowly bringing back to life after many years of rotting away and minimal use in previous ownership. I was using it as my daily driver for about 3 months, but I broke a main leaf on the left rear corner about 2 weeks before my wedding, and in a mad effort to get the truck repaired AND lifted to clear my 33's in time for the wedding, I scored a set of aftermarket (most likely OME) heavy duty front springs from my bro in law from what was definitely a Land Cruiser front axle (removed them myself). I measured them to be approximately the same length as the front springs on my 62 so I went ahead and pulled the front end apart and then discovered that when laid side by side, unloaded, the springs that he gave me were actually a fair bit longer. I figured the shackle would just swing forward a bit, but by the time I had drilled a new hole for the center pin and got everything all lined up and bolted back into place, the shackles were pointing forward at atleast a 75* angle. Once I hit a bump in the parking lot behind the shop, they got locked forward at 90* and I knew I screwed up putting such long springs in there with no time buffer before the wedding. The rear springs I never ended up touching because I ran out of time. Anyways, I jacked it up to get the weight off it, popped the springs back to their regular position and put some wood blocks between the bumpstops and the ubolt pad to prevent the suspension from compressing far enough to lock the shackle forward.

So my problem is my spring is about 4 to 6 inches too long- I was thinking the easiest solution would be to move the front shackle hanger forward 4 to 6 inches to get the correct angle, and call her good. But then i was thinking, it might be a bad idea having the shackles that much further forward, so perhaps this would be a good time to do a shackle reversal. What do you guys think? Any further thoughts or anything that I might have missed in my pre-marital whirlwind?

 

[60 toy ota]

at least as a temp you could get longer shackles, but then you've got angles and C&T and CG and drive shaft lengths to worry about...

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

you really should consider either waiting to get the right springs, or just be aware that you're going to need a new driveshaft(longspline), shackles, bushings, and you should relocate both the front and rear hangers, or your axle will move forward or backward in relation to the wheel well...

 

[60Works]

Making permanent modifications to your frame in order to keep the wrong springs is throwing good money after bad. Wait and get the correct part. Shackles and springs are part of an engineered system and should be replaced as a group. Guessing, especially on the front axle, will almost certainly result in poor handling and ride characteristics.

 

[Output Shaft]

A spring shop can make those springs any length you want.

As mentioned, totally effin up the hangars to try to fit the wrong spring does not seem like the best course of action.

 

[olija]

Yeah, you guys are right, none of this stuff is recommended or the best course of action, but if a guy with a competent set of skills wants to make it work and plans it out properly, there shouldn't really be any reason it won't work, right? I got the springs for free which is a bargain- my logic is I don't have that much spare money but I do have spare time, so why not give it a shot? Also, I got this truck for free and brought it back from the dead, so I have a very hard time justifying $2000 on top-o-the-line brand new brand name parts when old junk will work on this old girl. I have the springs on the vehicle right now and it actually drives very nicely, other than the fact that the suspension doesn't work at all. So in theory by allowing the suspension to work, by moving the shackle hanger forward to give the shackle a normal angle, the suspension should ride fairly well once again, no? As for running different shackles, I'm not opposed to building my own, it's easy, and bushings are easy to get on eBay. I was more worried about how my caster would be affected by a shackle reversal if I chose to go that way, but on second thought, I'm probably just better off sticking closer to the original design and just moving the hanger forward.

 

[Output Shaft]

Maybe try a 1.5" longer shackle first?

 

[BlueCruiser84]

Yea, do a longer shackle you don't need to make any changes if you have already drilled the perch/center pin. It will get you through the wedding and as others have said it would be preferable to modifying the shackle mounts to fit the improper springs.

Measure along the arch of the spring and then measure between the spring mount and shackle frame-side mount. The difference between the two measurements gives you an idea of how long your shackle needs to be. Does that make sense?

 

[Dynosoar]

Someone will curse you as the PO one day! Get the correct parts, please.

Dyno

 

[Spike Strip]

<< sigh... >>

Even NEW OMEs are less that $200 a corner, but if all you broke is a single stock leaf, just dissemble the pack and buy a single leaf from a spring shop (or have them rebuild the pack) or find a used spring and do it right. You're doing an awful lot of work for something that will probably handle like crap (yes, even worse than a normal cruiser), when you're done and will probably end up back behind the barn to finish rotting.

 

[olija]

Sorry I didn't specify; I broke more than just the 1 leaf. Each corner of the truck has at least 1 broken leaf so it's been time for an overhaul for a while. Once again, I don't really care if it's more work to do it this way, I already have the springs, just trying to work with what I have. The longer shackle idea sounds alot sketchier than just moving the shackle hanger forward, and I don't see how that would really change anything because the shackle would still be pointing forward at an extreme angle no matter how long it is, no? In the meantime, I've decided to take the truck off the road for a few weeks or months and gather some more info and ideas and work on it when summer's over and things are less busy around here. Here's some reference pics in case someone else decides to try this at home:

Old (bottom) vs new (top)

Relocated center pin:

And new installed, with the shackle maxed out:

 

[woytovich]

That is not a cruiser spring that you are trying to install. Maybe it is a longer spring that someone put on a cruiser but it is not stock.
If you move the shackle/spring hanger and adjust steering geometry correctly you should be able to get those long springs to work. But as others have said: that is a lot of work.
Maybe you can source some stock length used springs for not a lot of $
Let us know how it works out... And be careful, steering is kinda important.

 

[olija]

The springs are off a Cruiser axle, I know for sure because I removed them from the axle myself. I'm not sure if it was off a 40 series (axle was long removed from the original vehicle before I got my hands on it), but judging by:

a) the smaller spring eyes, 25mm vs 35
b) the longer i2i length, as obvious in photo
c) the axle didn't have the gusset on the long tube and
d) the u-bolts were round, not square, and went longitudinally, not laterally over the perches,

I can most assuredly tell you it was not off a 60 or 62 series, my guess is most likely a 40 because I recall reading once a few months ago that they use longer springs than a 60. It wouldn't be from a 60 because they are basically the same as a 62. Definitely aftermarket though, but that's probably a good thing. Will update with pics whenever I get this project started.

 

[lcwizard]

Both the 40 front and rear are very close to the same length as a 60 front. The difference is the 60 front has a nearly centered centerpin while the 40 front and rears are noticeably offset ... perhaps the rear of a 45 or 55?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

if the original pin in the spring in question was centered, then it was a 55 series rear, otherwise, my first guess is rear fj60 spring pack stripped down a few leaves...just because they were pulled from a cruiser ax, doesn't mean they are cruiser springs...and that shackle angle isn't going to cut it- you'll have a harsh ride...longer shackles will not fix that extreme a problem, but generally, the longer angle equates to being able to use a longer spring...the angle will mellow out, as the hypotenuse of the angle increases...HTH

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Both the 40 front and rear are very close to the same length as a 60 front. The difference is the 60 front has a nearly centered centerpin while the 40 front and rears are noticeably offset ... perhaps the rear of a 45 or 55?

This is my question as well.


Longer springs can absolutely work with proper planning and implementation, the question is whether or not the spring rate is correct for a 60 front end. The 60 is heavier by a good bit than a 40.

I put FJ60 rear springs in the front of mine. They've been working exceptionally well.

 

[lcwizard]

I can't be certain but the design looked like a Burbank spring product, long gone and a kidney beater. They liked using 3/8" leaves so they could get away with three instead of 6 or 7 thin leaves. Back when the west was still being settled and I was 19, I bought a set for my 40. They were so stiff they eventually tore one of the rear fixed mount ( forward mount ) off the frame.

 

[White Stripe]

Sounds like you are set on moving the shackle hanger, that is not hard. If your heart is set on that, then do it. With a torch, a mig, and a grinder, should be done in 2-3 hours. Measure 4 times, cut once, weld once. Do light tacks when you think you have the hanger where you want it then put weight on it, likely you will find you will have to break the tacks and move the mount a bit from where you thought it should be.

 

[60Works]

I've got a set of 62 springs you can have if you can find a way to get them across the continent.

I still say that hacking a frame to make the wrong part (kinda) fit is a bit daft.

 

[olija]

Sounds like you are set on moving the shackle hanger, that is not hard. If your heart is set on that, then do it. With a torch, a mig, and a grinder, should be done in 2-3 hours. Measure 4 times, cut once, weld once. Do light tacks when you think you have the hanger where you want it then put weight on it, likely you will find you will have to break the tacks and move the mount a bit from where you thought it should be.

How's this for ya?

I just cut the original hangers off and took a piece of tie rod from a heavy duty truck and welded it into a relief I cut out of a piece of 2x2 tube, then tacked the tube to the Cruiser frame, reassembled the shackles to the new hangers and tested it on an embankment outside. Once satisfied, I took it back inside and welded it a little better, and cut some triangular gussets to beef it up some more. So far it seems to be working fine- that being said I haven't driven it on the road yet because I've got more work to do on the rear suspension. I think I will need to remove one of the leafs from the pack, and/or the front swaybar because it doesn't flex that great yet.