40 and a 12ht - how to make it shut-off

[Indestructible 47]

hi guys, so i have a hj47, as some may know, that i put a 12ht into. now i have been driving it lots but have never been able to figure out how to make the old girl shut-off. ideally i would like to make the key work but i am stumped as to how i would achieve this. my cruiser had the 2h with the edic originally. i have seen people use a pull cable but as i said, i'd like to be able to turn it off with the key. my 12ht was in a sahara hj61 so uses the vacuum feed off of the power steering pump to shut it off. now, i cannot run that power steering pump because a. it wont fit in next to the engine mount and b. because i don't have power steering. so..... i'm out of ideas. please help. cheers

because everyone likes a pic....

 

[Michael B]

You can use a VSV to shut it down. That's what I did on my 45 mate.

 

[Indestructible 47]

You can use a VSV to shut it down. That's what I did on my 45 mate.

thanks for the quick reply mate. still have to run vacuum to the VSV though? if so how do i do that? because i did try that but it didn't work for me. would you mind explaining in a little more detail? thanks

 

[handcannon]

I would be interested in your vacuum shut-off system also. I have a Nissan SD-22 which has an almost identical operating system to the Edic that Toyota uses. The motor is out of a 1981 Nissan 720 pickup and I plan to put it into a 1973 Datsun (pre Nissan name) 620 pickup. I have had the motor running on my garage floor, and figured out how the IP controls work. But, in case something doesn't work properly when I get it into the 620 your vacuum shut down system might be useful to me.

Don

 

[Indestructible 47]

I would be interested in your vacuum shut-off system also. I have a Nissan SD-22 which has an almost identical operating system to the Edic that Toyota uses. The motor is out of a 1981 Nissan 720 pickup and I plan to put it into a 1973 Datsun (pre Nissan name) 620 pickup. I have had the motor running on my garage floor, and figured out how the IP controls work. But, in case something doesn't work properly when I get it into the 620 your vacuum shut down system might be useful to me.

Don

okay, no worries. i'll PM you if i don't need it. cheers

 

[troopie]

The vacuum pump is on the back of the alternator. That's your vacuum source. You should be able to run the vsv from that.

 

[Vossie]

theres no edic on a 12HT, rather a butterfly valve in the intake manifold that starves the engine of air to shut off.

the vsv allows vaccuum from the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator through it to the actuator on the manifold which pushes the butterfly closed.

normally the vsv allows vaccum through it in an unpowered state, but i have mine set to let thru under a powered state, when i flip a spring return toggle switch. thats bc i couldnt find the correct vsv tho.

 

[Vossie]

 

[handcannon]

I would be interested in your vacuum shut-off system also. I have a Nissan SD-22 which has an almost identical operating system to the Edic that Toyota uses. The motor is out of a 1981 Nissan 720 pickup and I plan to put it into a 1973 Datsun (pre Nissan name) 620 pickup. I have had the motor running on my garage floor, and figured out how the IP controls work. But, in case something doesn't work properly when I get it into the 620 your vacuum shut down system might be useful to me.

Don

okay, no worries. i'll PM you if i don't need it. cheers

My wording wasn't what it should have been, my bad. I wasn't looking for your actual system, just a diagram and description for the system so that I might be able to duplicate it. I do have a very rusty 1978 FJ55 that I'm using for parts so I should have all the parts needed on it.

theres no edic on a 12HT, rather a butterfly valve in the intake manifold that starves the engine of air to shut off.

the vsv allows vaccuum from the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator through it to the actuator on the manifold which pushes the butterfly closed.

normally the vsv allows vaccum through it in an unpowered state, but i have mine set to let thru under a powered state, when i flip a spring return toggle switch. thats bc i couldnt find the correct vsv tho.

Thank you Vossie! I will need to see if I can duplicate that system on the Nissan SD-22. The SD-22 has a vacuum pump on the back of the alternator, and also has an "edic" (Nissan uses a different term) that operates the IP to over inject, run, and shut down the same as the edic that Toyota uses. It also uses a butterfly valve to control engine speed.

I didn't get the electronics portion of the "edic" with the motor. But, I have been able to get the Nissan version of the edic to operate properly by using a rotary double pole switch. However, when I tried that with a Toyota style, glow function, ignition switch using the separate glow circuit in the switch to shut off the IP the over inject would run in a continuous loop. My goal is to over inject, run, and shut off the motor all from the ignition switch. Anyway, with the system that you describe I will have a secondary way to shut the motor down if the ignition switch doesn't work out.

Don

 

[Indestructible 47]

theres no edic on a 12HT, rather a butterfly valve in the intake manifold that starves the engine of air to shut off.

the vsv allows vaccuum from the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator through it to the actuator on the manifold which pushes the butterfly closed.

normally the vsv allows vaccum through it in an unpowered state, but i have mine set to let thru under a powered state, when i flip a spring return toggle switch. thats bc i couldnt find the correct vsv tho.

wow, awesome stuff. thanks for that, i'm presuming that i can power my vsv from the old edic wires?

 

[Vossie]

My wording wasn't what it should have been, my bad. I wasn't looking for your actual system, just a diagram and description for the system so that I might be able to duplicate it. I do have a very rusty 1978 FJ55 that I'm using for parts so I should have all the parts needed on it.



Thank you Vossie! I will need to see if I can duplicate that system on the Nissan SD-22. The SD-22 has a vacuum pump on the back of the alternator, and also has an "edic" (Nissan uses a different term) that operates the IP to over inject, run, and shut down the same as the edic that Toyota uses. It also uses a butterfly valve to control engine speed.

I didn't get the electronics portion of the "edic" with the motor. But, I have been able to get the Nissan version of the edic to operate properly by using a rotary double pole switch. However, when I tried that with a Toyota style, glow function, ignition switch using the separate glow circuit in the switch to shut off the IP the over inject would run in a continuous loop. My goal is to over inject, run, and shut off the motor all from the ignition switch. Anyway, with the system that you describe I will have a secondary way to shut the motor down if the ignition switch doesn't work out.

Don

glad to be of help. ja, unlike the 2H which uses an edic to cut off diesel and hence kill the motor, the 12HT uses that butterfly valve. effectively starves the engine of all oxygen. one nice side effect is that you dont get that harsh clatter down during shut down that older diesels do. its a more gentle shutdown.

remember though, that the butterfly in the 12HT is NOT used for accelerator control like the one in a 3B. its purely for shutdown.

if your butterfly valve is able to completely close off the intake then you should be able to do this.

wow, awesome stuff. thanks for that, i'm presuming that i can power my vsv from the old edic wires?

no worries. ja, you can use the old edic wiring if its available. just make sure you get the correct VSV

 

[handcannon]

glad to be of help. ja, unlike the 2H which uses an edic to cut off diesel and hence kill the motor, the 12HT uses that butterfly valve. effectively starves the engine of all oxygen. one nice side effect is that you dont get that harsh clatter down during shut down that older diesels do. its a more gentle shutdown.

remember though, that the butterfly in the 12HT is NOT used for accelerator control like the one in a 3B. its purely for shutdown.

if your butterfly valve is able to completely close off the intake then you should be able to do this.

Thanks for that info. I'm not real familiar with Toyota diesels and I just learned something new to me about the 12HT. I will have to remember this and check it out when/if I get to that point.

I can see where that would be real handy in a run-away diesel situation.

Don

 

[Indestructible 47]

glad to be of help. ja, unlike the 2H which uses an edic to cut off diesel and hence kill the motor, the 12HT uses that butterfly valve. effectively starves the engine of all oxygen. one nice side effect is that you dont get that harsh clatter down during shut down that older diesels do. its a more gentle shutdown.

remember though, that the butterfly in the 12HT is NOT used for accelerator control like the one in a 3B. its purely for shutdown.

if your butterfly valve is able to completely close off the intake then you should be able to do this.



no worries. ja, you can use the old edic wiring if its available. just make sure you get the correct VSV

@Vossie what do you mean by the correct vsv? just the 24v or the 12v the difference? I've got both but will have to use the 12v right?

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Just a quick note, that you can use the wiring to the EDIC relay, but NOT to the EDIC motor.

It *should* be Blue with a Yellow Stripe, off the top of my head. But I might be wrong on the color. You want the wire that has power when the key is switched on. The other wire from the ignition switch in the EDIC relay is the start signal--you don't want that one.

The Stock VSV which is on the top of the 12HT Intake manifold is as simple as power when the key is on, and off when the key is off. If you are using another VSV from another source, you might need to do something different. But the vacuum is used to shut off the motor, when you turn the key off. Which is why your motor runs and runs currently--if you applied vacuum to the shutoff actuator it would shut off. When power is on, the vacuum is constantly being vented, and when you turn the key off, the vacuum is vented to the shutoff actuator and the motor shuts down.

Hope that helps! The 12HT is simply the best!

Dan

 

[Indestructible 47]

Just a quick note, that you can use the wiring to the EDIC relay, but NOT to the EDIC motor.

It *should* be Blue with a Yellow Stripe, off the top of my head. But I might be wrong on the color. You want the wire that has power when the key is switched on. The other wire from the ignition switch in the EDIC relay is the start signal--you don't want that one.

The Stock VSV which is on the top of the 12HT Intake manifold is as simple as power when the key is on, and off when the key is off. If you are using another VSV from another source, you might need to do something different. But the vacuum is used to shut off the motor, when you turn the key off. Which is why your motor runs and runs currently--if you applied vacuum to the shutoff actuator it would shut off. When power is on, the vacuum is constantly being vented, and when you turn the key off, the vacuum is vented to the shutoff actuator and the motor shuts down.

Hope that helps! The 12HT is simply the best!

Dan

thanks heaps, that's really helpful. cheers

 

[Indestructible 47]

@76 FJ40 and @Vossie , could i please have some pics of how you have rigged yours up? i still can't get mine to work. thanks

 

[Vossie]

the above pic shows the VSV. the 2 vacuum lines going to it are:
1. from vaccum pump
2. to shut down actuator

here you can see the actuator on the side of the intake. inside is the butterfly valve. so the vacuum line from the VSV comes to this actuator. when power is taken away from the VSV, it allows vacuum through it, and it then closes the actuator shutting off the motor.

to test, see if you are getting vacuum through the vsv with no power. use you tongue, great gauge of vacuum.

if your getting vacuum thru the VSV, check that it does move the actuator. if it does, then check that the actuator is actually closing the butterfly valve

 

[handcannon]

Excellent pics and description about the shut off. I'm visually oriented, and this makes it real easy for me to visualize the system.

The 12HT system won't work directly with the SD-22 as the butterfly has two distinctly different uses between the 12HT and the SD-22. But, even though I don't have the motor operational in the pickup yet, I have ideas running through my mind about how to modify the SD-22 system from an air operated speed control to a fuel operated speed control. If these ideas work then the current butterfly would no longer be needed and possibly repurposed to a use like in the 12HT. If this fuel operated speed control works then it will be much easier to put a turbo on.

Don

 

[Michael B]

Here are the pictures of my setup. I hope this helps.

 

[Vossie]

@76 FJ40 has a much prettier 45 than mine