3vze head studs?

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I know it's probably been talked about a million times, but I am changing the head gaskets on a 3.0 liter and was wondering what is the common fix for the head studs? Couldn't seem to find anything in the search or the FAQ. Do you re-use your head studs? Buy new from toyota? Or spend the money for ARP?

The friend I am helping with this is on a tight budget (aren't we all?)so we are trying to rule out ARP.

Truck has 170,000 and it looks to me like the gaskets have been changed once already.
 
I don't think Toyota used studs on your engine. They used bolts. Common wisdom is to replace them. You can get studs if you want from DOA Racing. I don't know how they are priced vs. bolts.
 
I wouldnt say anything if I wasnt thinking about this the other day...

Toyota used 2 bolt sizes on the 3.0 that I know of... One is a 14mm head, and the other a 13 IIRC.

The 14mm that I have came out of a 89 PU IIR. And nobody that I know of has had head problems with 88 and 89 truck. I've even heard those two years are... were NOT covered in the recall.

Now I have no idea what it would take to drill and tap the block, or if it would even be worth it...

just FFT and letting ya know... The hard part would be drilling and tapping the block... The easy part would be going to Toyota and getting the 14mm bolts...
 
Huh, thought they were studs. Why do the head gaskets fail so often? I always assumed it was a problem with the head gasket bolts stretching through heat cycles.
 
IIRC, 88 and 89 are not covered in the recall, and I believe 90 was the 1st year of the asbestos(?) head gaskets and smaller head bolts...


Also, the pipe at #5 or #6... (passenger side) being so close doesn't help things...
 
{From my FSM, pages EG2-76 through EG2-77 notes.}

You can conceivably just measure the stretch. For what it's worth, on the last two we did, one we reused the bolts on, and it's now back apart because it didn't hold, and mine, which has been solid so far, but the bolts were new anyhow.

When we did mine, again, we used basically new factory bolts, also remember that mine's a '95 w/ that star deal instead of the 6-point bolt, and the torque is now 35 ft/lbs, then another 90 degrees to finish, instead of the printed 33 ft/lbs and 2 additional 90 degree finishes. *Roughly what works out to be arount 60 ft/lbs more or less.

The person who recommended the 35 instead of the 33 is a master tech, who's done these for years and I trust his input impeccably. We're ordering the new star type 12 point ones for the '91 and doing the same as we did on mine.

Remember this is for the star style bolts only. :wrench:
:cheers:
 
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Huh, thought they were studs. Why do the head gaskets fail so often? I always assumed it was a problem with the head gasket bolts stretching through heat cycles.

[Me on a pulpit.. :D ]

Toyota had problems initially with the loss of asbestos type gaskets, and initially what looked to be improper procedure in torque with the MLS type, thus the recall. It's a pretty well known issue, but compare it to other makes, specifically domestics and look at the life span of the engines, Toyota and Honda rule, period.

From what I have personally seen and experienced, the bolts don't stretch any more than the initial torque procedure causes. It comes down to torque and prep. The one above we're redoing had over 260k on it before it became an issue, and mine was because, well, it was an overheated transmission and engine and, honestly in my case, 2wd-Auto, 3VZE, 600-700 lbs of gear and a 6-7 hour trip in 90 degree heat at a constant 65mph will kill almost anything, regardless of stopping a couple times for gas.

In other words, I beat up on it a lot, and why I went through everything and swapped to a manual 5 speed 4wd.

They have had similar issues with the 3.4, aside from the upside down gasket issue and IIRC have also bumped up the head bolt torque from 25 ft/lbs to 27 or so.
(*It is just not something Toyota took to a public service campaign, I saw this in a tech notice only I was shown, that is an in-house printout customers and others don't necessarily always see.)

I've seen these engines go well over 300k mi before finally giving up the ghost, even then, they only needed to be over bored by .02 (20 thousandths) and are working in the owners vehicles still with no further signs of the issue.

Now add in this contributing factor, the walking piston rings. Some engines experience this around 235-275k mi. It is another thing people rarely find out about, as it's easier to explain as a "Bad head gasket" since you're in there anyhow.
~All rings walk, I have seen 3 engines in no specific cylinder location, have the rings so gummed up and aligned that they were allowing the compression loss. As in, yes, all the slots aligned up, top to bottom, and barely 15 psi and falling.

People insult the little 3VZE to readily. Yeah the 3.4's nice, but expensive to swap to.

[End Semi-Off-Topic Sermon.]

*Feel free to throw this all back at me if these two go bad in the next 20-30k b/c of the gaskets, it'll be my bad. ;)
 
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What about using copper head gaskets on a V6?

I have seen them advertised on some obscure site, but that was a long time ago....



EDIT: Hey! Look what I found!

1024050.JPG


http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebG...UniqueID=DE7353AB-D633-4838-B908-DF82B030A6AA
 
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What about using copper head gaskets on a V6?

I have seen them advertised on some obscure site, but that was a long time ago....



EDIT: Hey! Look what I found!

1024050.JPG


http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebG...UniqueID=DE7353AB-D633-4838-B908-DF82B030A6AA

See, now why does this set have studs? are they better? I'm confused and DO NOT ever want to pull down this engine again. Too many vacuum lines and emissions crap, think I will talk him into a vortec like mine if it goes bad again.......much easier to work on!!!
 
See, now why does this set have studs? are they better? I'm confused and DO NOT ever want to pull down this engine again...

B/C it's a page from LCE. He likely still has some older kits still around. Trust my input here, go with the 12 point bolts, if nothing more than if they did loosen, there isn't a nut and washer floating around in the top end. :hhmm:
 
The bolts are not the problem, the horrible exhaust design is the main problem, coupled with the lack of the original asbestos (I'm assuming) headgaskets. Thus the lack of a recall on the 88-89 V6's.

This engine is much easier to work on once you give up and accept the fact that you have to take everything off... :D
 
This engine is much easier to work on once you give up and accept the fact that you have to take everything off... :D


:flipoff2: :lol:


I swear, when I think back on ANYTHING I did to that motor...

I just wanna cry... Then there was the time I couldnt get the STARTER out from the truck... :crybaby: No matter which way I turned it! :bang:


I can say one fruitful thing about working on that engine though...

Take the EGR off and just flip the upper intake over and rest it on the fender... But put a rag underneath it...

Saves having to take some of the gazillion vacuum lines off...
 
Long live the 22RE!


HAIL, HALE!!! Long live the KING!!!


Agreed, I just don't think you gain that much with the 3.0. It has just enough power to account for the parasitic loss from the automatic......... :D


That's why if you have one, you should rip out the Hydraulic TC and put a geared one in...

B/C it's Hydraulic, it acts like a 2nd torque converter...
 
I had a set of DOA head 'studs'.

The machine shop I used to build my motor would not warranty my motor if I used them because the threads were CUT not ROLLED (this may have changed). They got me some ARP head studs for half of what I paid for the DOA 'studs'.
 

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