5 years later...
3FE Head and 2F block (2FE) build questions (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Randy88FJ62
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
Why would you say Toyota wanted nothing to do with the 2FE? I see it more like the 3FE had more of what Toyota was looking for at the time... less weight, higher revs that fit the large and growing Amercan market.
Toyota missed the mark when they fit the A440 behind the 3FE.
IMHO the 2FE is a great motor for rock crawling and rigs where low end grunt and torque are very desirable.
Toyota missed the mark when they fit the A440 behind the 3FE.
IMHO the 2FE is a great motor for rock crawling and rigs where low end grunt and torque are very desirable.
Agreed.
I was just thinking that at 2FE wouldn't be the ideal all around solution (daily driver, long range highway cruiser) for a FJ62 with that auto tranny.
But as Randy mentioned, going with the most inexpensive option, a cheaper rebuilt 2F block makes sense.
But now I see all the alterations that have to be done to mate the two together, and it makes me wonder.... will it actually be cheaper in the end than just rebuilding the tired 3F? Will significant money be saved? ... if saving money is the goal
& I also wondering if two fresh blocks were sitting side by side, one 2F and one 3F, and either one could be dropped right in.... which one would be chosen to mate with the FJ62 slushbox.
Just wondering out loud....
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
My thoughts exactly. I got confused part way through the thread while trying to follow the train of thought for swapping in the 2F block. The 2FE swap is not without some challenges. He is ahead of the game with respect to the wiring, but the 2F auxiliaries complicate this for a swap into a 62.
If this comes off, I'll be interested in how the 2FE stands up to the power sucking transmission that is the A440.
I think that if minimizing expense and speedy turnaround were the prime drivers, simply refreshing a 3FE block is the most economical route.
- Thread starter
- #45
Thank you all for the comments. TrickT, I have three 3Fe camshafts so sourcing one wouldn't be an issue.
The Toyota Trails article has all the accessory modification plates drawn out so I can easily have those made at work. Being friends with the machinists at work has its perks.
I would gladly refresh a 3FE block if it were economical. A local shop listed in this thread quoted me $3,500 to do a full rebuild....
Compared to a cheap rebuilt 2F block from a friend with forged pistons and new bearings, etc.
So in my mind the 2FE while technically challenging is the most direct and cost effective route at this point.
I'm not going to mess with the 3FE cam and leave the 2F cam in place.
Question:
With the newly rebuilt 2F would new pushrods require a certain break in procedure?
The Toyota Trails article has all the accessory modification plates drawn out so I can easily have those made at work. Being friends with the machinists at work has its perks.
I would gladly refresh a 3FE block if it were economical. A local shop listed in this thread quoted me $3,500 to do a full rebuild....
Compared to a cheap rebuilt 2F block from a friend with forged pistons and new bearings, etc.
So in my mind the 2FE while technically challenging is the most direct and cost effective route at this point.
I'm not going to mess with the 3FE cam and leave the 2F cam in place.
Question:
With the newly rebuilt 2F would new pushrods require a certain break in procedure?
- Thread starter
- #46
Seth,
Your joke about my SOA timeline doesn't apply here. I want the truck working for Summer wheeling in the Sierras.
Your joke about my SOA timeline doesn't apply here. I want the truck working for Summer wheeling in the Sierras.
- Thread starter
- #47
So any other custom modifications that I haven't thought of?
Here's my list:
2F block
2F push rods
3FE head
2F water pump
reducer fitting from water pump to main cooling hose (2F water pump has larger diameter output compared to 3FE water pump)
modified upper fan shroud (2F water pump sits 3/4" higher than 3FE water pump)
clean/rebuild injectors
Head Gasket Kit
modify/weld up pcv valve on 2F side cover, use 3Fe valve cover.
extend exhaust.
Engine mount to AC custom bracket
AC to PS custom bracket
Ø3/8 steel pipe used as spacer for alternator
1" X 1/4" flat steel plate to spacer the smog pump
ilder pulley (large belt) mounting bracket must be trimmed
block off coolant hoses from 3FE thermostat housing that used to go to 3FE water pump. (2F water pump doesn’t have enough outlets)
Here's my list:
2F block
2F push rods
3FE head
2F water pump
reducer fitting from water pump to main cooling hose (2F water pump has larger diameter output compared to 3FE water pump)
modified upper fan shroud (2F water pump sits 3/4" higher than 3FE water pump)
clean/rebuild injectors
Head Gasket Kit
modify/weld up pcv valve on 2F side cover, use 3Fe valve cover.
extend exhaust.
Engine mount to AC custom bracket
AC to PS custom bracket
Ø3/8 steel pipe used as spacer for alternator
1" X 1/4" flat steel plate to spacer the smog pump
ilder pulley (large belt) mounting bracket must be trimmed
block off coolant hoses from 3FE thermostat housing that used to go to 3FE water pump. (2F water pump doesn’t have enough outlets)
Any wear in of the pushrods will be taken up by your first few valve adjustments (when you retorque the head bolts).
I'm sure there will be more little things that pop up as you do it, but your list is looking pretty good. A few things that pop into mind:
The block has flat top pistons for a 60 era head, correct? It wasn't rebuilt with domed ones to mate a 40 era head?
Make sure you have a "dented" 2F side cover (again 60 era) to accommodate the larger distributor head.
I think you need to swap on the 3FE crank pulley to accommodate the belts for 3FE accessories.
I'm sure there will be more little things that pop up as you do it, but your list is looking pretty good. A few things that pop into mind:
The block has flat top pistons for a 60 era head, correct? It wasn't rebuilt with domed ones to mate a 40 era head?
Make sure you have a "dented" 2F side cover (again 60 era) to accommodate the larger distributor head.
I think you need to swap on the 3FE crank pulley to accommodate the belts for 3FE accessories.
- Thread starter
- #49
Thanks rocdoc.
Yes, the pistons are flat (not domed) and i'll verify the sideplate when I visit the block on thurs.
Are there any differences in the distributors? You mention a larger distributor head.
Yes, the pistons are flat (not domed) and i'll verify the sideplate when I visit the block on thurs.
Are there any differences in the distributors? You mention a larger distributor head.
- Thread starter
- #51
excellent
If it were me, I would just take a stock 2f with 2f head, put tbi on it, and then put a turbo on. I bet it would cost about the same as the mods your talking with the 2fe but make more power and be way way more cool. You can make a factory exhaust manifold work as a turbo manifold easily. And you can just use 5.7 injectors instead of 4.3. You would need to have it professionally tuned. But that shouldn't be too bad.
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
I have yet to hear/read about a perfectly tuned TBI 2F or one that someone is 100% happy with. The 2FE conversion, on the other hand, has proven itself to be smooth running and reliable with no ECU reprogramming required.
I am pretty happy with tbi on my 40. I will blow the doors off of a stock carbed 40 and I have 35's. It has a hiccup where it will stall once in a blue moon when coming to a stop but I am too lazy to care to look into it. If somebody wanted it perfect they should really take it to a professional tuner. Tuning is nice because you can adjust things if you do mods or just for personal preference. I can adjust the timing throughout the rpm range and for different loads, adjust the idle to whatever I want every 10 degrees of engine temp, and a bunch of other kinda cool stuff.
- Thread starter
- #55
White Stripe,
The cost of the TBI mentioned above would be higher than a 2FE swap for me.
If I wasn't doing a 2FE I'd probably invest in an entire V8 swap and get it approved by the ref.
The goal here is to get my truck running in 2 months the cheapest and quickest way. The 2FE is my answer.
The cost of the TBI mentioned above would be higher than a 2FE swap for me.
If I wasn't doing a 2FE I'd probably invest in an entire V8 swap and get it approved by the ref.
The goal here is to get my truck running in 2 months the cheapest and quickest way. The 2FE is my answer.
Gotcha. Just throwing out ideas. I don't know what you situation is obviously. I think a 2FE is a great option as well. Wheeling season is coming-better hurry!
- Thread starter
- #57
Going to bring the 2F block home next weekend. Until then I am curious how much effort is involved to:
1. Check my current head to see if it's good.
2. Rebuild a head with new parts?
Can an average joe like me rebuild a head or is it a lot of tight tolerance stuff?
1. Check my current head to see if it's good.
2. Rebuild a head with new parts?
Can an average joe like me rebuild a head or is it a lot of tight tolerance stuff?
Stumpalama
Forum Junkie
As far as rebuilding a head, it is my opinion, after having one rebuilt with chevy valves and springs, that this is a job best left to a machine shop.
The fact that your head has 100+K miles on it and not knowing the past adjustment schedule, the valves are probably grooved, the seats probably need attention and the springs may be worn. Valves and seats can be reconditioned in the garage with specific tool with varying degrees of effectiveness with specific tools, but I believe you will only be prolonging the inevitable for a limited period of time.
A machine shop with check the head for flatness and cracks, then deck the head to ensure it is truly flat. You want this. It is worth the investment IMHO.
I went with chevy valves to increase flow (slightly) and they are, apparently harder. The machine shop i took mine to did not have the proper assortment of reamers to enlarge my valve guides, so they replaced them, but depending on who does your work, if they can do it, reaming saves money.
The fact that your head has 100+K miles on it and not knowing the past adjustment schedule, the valves are probably grooved, the seats probably need attention and the springs may be worn. Valves and seats can be reconditioned in the garage with specific tool with varying degrees of effectiveness with specific tools, but I believe you will only be prolonging the inevitable for a limited period of time.
A machine shop with check the head for flatness and cracks, then deck the head to ensure it is truly flat. You want this. It is worth the investment IMHO.
I went with chevy valves to increase flow (slightly) and they are, apparently harder. The machine shop i took mine to did not have the proper assortment of reamers to enlarge my valve guides, so they replaced them, but depending on who does your work, if they can do it, reaming saves money.
You have a Vehicle speed sensor?
- Thread starter
- #60
Thanks for the advice stumpalama. I'll have to get it quoted.
