3FE Head and 2F block (2FE) build questions

[Randy88FJ62]

There are many good threads on the 2FE build and I am hoping Rock Doc and others can help me understand a few things.

My 300,000+ mi 3FE finally lost compression in the cylinders. I am thinking of picking up a 2F block from a friend that has totally rebuilt it with forged pistons.

The idea is to throw my 3FE head onto the 2F block creating a 2FE.

Is there a fancy camshaft worth installing when I get the head rebuilt?

Are there any specific parts worth installing onto the head?


When my motor was running a month ago I could do 80 mph with 4.88's and 35's.

The goal of this 2FE is to regain the power to hold speeds going up a hill. Is there anything specific I should do to accomplish this?

The A440F is going to stay. Not in the mood to throw a H55 behind it at the moment.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I just realized that the 2F block will have different accessories in different places. How many parts will I need to swap since I only have the 3F block accessories?

 

[RockDoc]

Your 2FE will need to retain the smog pump I assume. Will you keep the AC? I think Tonkota's write up from trails goes through keeping all the 3FE accessories, including modifying the AC (?) bracketry.

A later 60 2F block will have all the threaded holes you need, but I used a 83 block and one threaded hole was missing. Details in my 2FE thread on that.

There is a popular somewhat warmer cam profile from Delta Camshaft in Tacoma. I have that in my 2FE. You could send a cam with the lifters out of the 2F block if you want to. It doesn't idle as smooth as stock, but... I'm not sure if I'll go with it again on my next 2FE, or stick with a stock cam to start.
If your head needs rebuilding, you can have some SBC valves installed that require a ream of of the guides and freshening of the seats without needing new guides or seats. There are ford seals that match the diameters of the SBC valve stem and the LC guide. Jim C has posted the details, and I have some details in my 3FE head thread.

If I go through another head, I will clean up the casting in the bowl area again. And likely put some effort into the runners and narrow the guide bosses again. I wouldn't bother with a throttle body over bore again. All depends if you want to get it together quick, or play a bit.

 

[gregnash]

Sub'd for further reference.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Thanks RocDoc. I'm headed to the junk yard tomorrow morning. On the off change I see a 60 in there; is there any specific parts I would need to pull?

FJ60 Water pump for example?
Any hoses etc?

 

[RockDoc]

I'd suggest making a list of things surrounding / attached to the long block (while looking under the hood of your 62) and filling in beside each what source you will use.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I do not have possession of the 2F long block yet...

 

[RockDoc]

No, but you can go around your 3FE and list things. Hard heater lines, oil cooler, distributor (3FE) , valve cover (your pick), PCV system (your pick), water pump (2F), thermostat housing (3FE), fuel pump block off, .... accessories.... crank pulley...... some stuff there is only one option, some is your pick, some is to suit you accessory layout and the fact it is going in a 62 rather than a 60.

 

[gregnash]

There was a document that one of the guys put together years ago of all the things you needed (may have been the one @RocDoc had mentioned).

 

[Randy88FJ62]

gregnash,
I downloaded the pdf with a great write up showing the custom brackets to make the 3F block accessories fit onto a 2F block.

I don't have a firm grasp of the 2F fuel pump. I believe it is mounted outside of the tank.

Would an external 2F fuel pump be desired over the 3FE fuel pump which is hard to get to in the gas tank?

 

[RockDoc]

2f pump is low pressure, mounted on block, and driven off the camshaft. It suits a carb. You will block off the opening with the block off plate from the 3f block. The EFI will use your stock in tank, higher pressure pump.

 

[Dynosoar]

Randy, the cam is in the block not the head. So unless you plan on disassembling the block there is no way to swap the cam.

Dyno

 

[Spike Strip]

Randy, there's a complete 2F in a 60 in a Sun Valley wrecking yard... It's been on ebay and just ended with no takers... I don't remember which one, but they were asking like $400. I think it was running ... If I can find the link I'll post. Don't remember the year, but it's best if you can find a 2F/3F block, which is mid-86 on, I think.

 

[Spike Strip]

Looks like it's earlier than I thought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-LAND-CRUISER-4X4-STICK-SHIFT-COMPLETE-ENGINE-/161000383657

Don't know what your plans are for the short block, but Mark A. has one that he refurbished. It's actually the engine Joey and I went down to SD and picked up. It had been rebuilt w/ higher comp pistons. Don't remember about it much beyond that. Just an FYI.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Alf,
I am planning on buying the one from Mark A

Thanks for the info on the fuel pump all. I'll stick with the FJ62 one in tank.

 

[TobyB]

Be careful with compression.

The stock 2F with 3FE head gets up around 8.8:1, and if the head's been cut, the block's been decked,
and/or the valves have been replaced with aftermarket, you get to 9.5:1 really fast.

Whatever you do, make sure you cc the head and check it- it's not too hard to get it down a bit while
it's apart, but if it's too high, (and I seem to remember that 9.5's pretty high for this chamber shape)
you'll have det and heat problems...

And I've had a heck of a time with heater/cooler hose routing, myself...

t

 

[TrickyT]

There's a well respected engine rebuilder in Reseda that you should consider taking your 3FE head to:
Martin Davidson's Automotive Machine Shop. He'd done a lot of work for Man-A-Fre as well as many here on 'mud, including the head off my FJ62. Reasonable prices and turn-around time.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Be careful with compression.

The stock 2F with 3FE head gets up around 8.8:1, and if the head's been cut, the block's been decked,
and/or the valves have been replaced with aftermarket, you get to 9.5:1 really fast.

Whatever you do, make sure you cc the head and check it- it's not too hard to get it down a bit while
it's apart, but if it's too high, (and I seem to remember that 9.5's pretty high for this chamber shape)
you'll have det and heat problems...

And I've had a heck of a time with heater/cooler hose routing, myself...

t

sooo many people don't give this line of thought enough credit. I have been advocating NOT milling for compression when doing head jobs for a while now...nothing sucks more than having to dump race gas into a tractor to keep it quiet and alive. unshrouding of the valves can be one way to lower compression that was inadvertantly increased by milling for flatness. besides, you can't add a turbo if you have too much static compression...

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Thank you for the heads up on compression. I was at "Valley Head" in Northridge for Aerospace work a few weeks back. The owner Larry knew the landcruiser motors well. I wonder how he compares to the aforementioned vendor in Reseda.

I have a good 3FE head and am assuming the 2F was not decked. I don't plan on taking any material off unless needed.

TobyB,
Can you elaborate on the heater hose routing challenges?

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Another question:



From Toyota Trails 2FE writeup:
" I used the cam and head from the 3fe. Other parts that I used were 2f water pump, 2f lifters, 2f pushrods, 2f timing gears (because they are all metal but the 3fe gears will work also), 2f side cover (modified), 3fe head gasket, 3fe valve cover, 3fe oil cooler, 3fe thermostat housing, and the 3fe manifolds (exhaust and intake)."

So my question is: Can I use 3fe lifters, pushrods, and timing gear? I am trying to minimize the amount of 2F parts I need to go foraging for (ie 2F water pump.)

In my simplified world I bolt a 3FE head onto a 2F block, then add a bunch of custom brackets to accept the accessories.

I really don't want to have to get 2F lifters etc. I need someone with more engine knowledge to confirm this before I jump head in.