You need 2f lifters and I think pushrods as well. The lifters are a different shape, and I would think the pushrods are longer. I believe the 3FE cam gear will work if you are just pulling from the 2f and installing, but the composite gear won't stand up to removal from the shaft and re-installation from what I understand.
3FE Head and 2F block (2FE) build questions (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Randy88FJ62
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Thread starter
- #23
Thank you for the clarification RocDoc.
How hard is it to replace the lifters and pushrods? Is this a machine shop type of job? I need to read more on engines in general. This is all foreign to me.
How hard is it to replace the lifters and pushrods? Is this a machine shop type of job? I need to read more on engines in general. This is all foreign to me.
Easy, especially if you have the oil pan off at the same time you have the side cover off. I think 10 came out from above with a magnet for me, the other 2 needed motivation from below.
If you are changing the camshaft, you need to remove them anyway.
If you are changing the camshaft, you need to remove them anyway.
TrickyT
Hate that mud...
Note that swapping in the 3FE camshaft isn't mandatory, but it has different timing than the 2F. Duration and lift are the same, but when the valves open occurs 5* earlier on a 3FE cam. See attached file for details.
- Thread starter
- #26
TrickyT,
Thank you for the attached pdf showing the different timing.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this entire custom build.
Here's where I am at and I'd like someone to chime in to all the custom parts needed as the TLCA Toyota Trails Article is vague.
1. The block I am looking at is an 84 2F.
Is an 84 block appropriate and considered (late model)
2. I have a 3FE head in my possession
3. I have three 3FE engines in my garage, none working so I have access to all parts needed for this build that are 3FE related.
parts needed to put these two together as a whole?
-2F water pump
-2F lifters
-2F pushrods
-custom belts to attach 3FE accessories using custom adapter plates
-modified 2F side cover (3Fe vlave cover has PCV valve on top in back
-extend exhaust
-2 piece fan shroud, custom upper piece
-My truck has no AC so no issues with that accessory fitment.
So back to push rods and lifters. I don't understand where these parts go or exactly what they do. Would the 2F block have these already installed or are these parts in the head?
RocDoc,
If these parts are I the head why were you mentioning removing the oil pan to do this?
I'm trying to see if I can simply bolt up the 3FE head to the 2F block. What am I missing here? I need to solve these issues in my head before I commit to bringing a 2F block home.
Thank you for the attached pdf showing the different timing.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this entire custom build.
Here's where I am at and I'd like someone to chime in to all the custom parts needed as the TLCA Toyota Trails Article is vague.
1. The block I am looking at is an 84 2F.
Is an 84 block appropriate and considered (late model)
2. I have a 3FE head in my possession
3. I have three 3FE engines in my garage, none working so I have access to all parts needed for this build that are 3FE related.
parts needed to put these two together as a whole?
-2F water pump
-2F lifters
-2F pushrods
-custom belts to attach 3FE accessories using custom adapter plates
-modified 2F side cover (3Fe vlave cover has PCV valve on top in back
-extend exhaust
-2 piece fan shroud, custom upper piece
-My truck has no AC so no issues with that accessory fitment.
So back to push rods and lifters. I don't understand where these parts go or exactly what they do. Would the 2F block have these already installed or are these parts in the head?
RocDoc,
If these parts are I the head why were you mentioning removing the oil pan to do this?
I'm trying to see if I can simply bolt up the 3FE head to the 2F block. What am I missing here? I need to solve these issues in my head before I commit to bringing a 2F block home.
Lifters live in the block, just behind the side cover (side cover is there to access the lifters). The pushrods extended up to the rocker assembly and are kind of half in the block, half in the head. If your 2F is complete with head and valve cover, they will be there. If it is decapitated, the pushrods at least will be missing. The 3FE push rods may be the same as 2F since the 3FE lifters have a deep well in the top (making up for the difference in length between the cam and rockers with the shorter block deck), but I don't have loose parts I know for sure which engine are from to compare.
84 block will be fine. I used an 83, you may be missing a convenient threaded hole that appears on later blocks, but it isn't a deal breaker. You can either use the 3FE valve cover and block the PCV port on the 2F side cover, or use the port on the side cover and a 2F valve cover. I went with the latter as I like the looks of the 2F valve cover.
- Thread starter
- #29
From the Toyota trails pdf I have been reading; it shows a picture of the 2F pushrod and 3FE pushrod. They are indeed different and I would need 2F pushrods.
Spoke to a guy at work and he was able to clarify the parts and locations as you just did. Thanks RocDoc.
So it looks like I will need to remove the 2F camshaft from the block and install a 3FE camshaft.
Is this relatively straight forward or something complicated?
Spoke to a guy at work and he was able to clarify the parts and locations as you just did. Thanks RocDoc.
So it looks like I will need to remove the 2F camshaft from the block and install a 3FE camshaft.
Is this relatively straight forward or something complicated?
If the block has decent camshaft and lifters in place, I would leave them. Swapping out the camshafts in effect to rotate the same profile 5* won't be worth it IMO. Plus, the 2F cam should have a steel gear rather than the composite.
- Thread starter
- #31
TrickyT posted a pdf above that shows the difference in timing between a 3Fe and a 2F. You believe it is negligible to leave the 2f Crankshaft and Camshaft in place?
Judgement call I suppose. Maybe others would swap. If I was going to pull the cam, I would put in a regrind with a warmer profile.
That said, if / when I build another 2FE I think I may start with a stock cam to see what difference there is compared to the Delta 859 (or 589?) in my 62 now.
That said, if / when I build another 2FE I think I may start with a stock cam to see what difference there is compared to the Delta 859 (or 589?) in my 62 now.
- Thread starter
- #33
My goal is a running truck. Not a performance machine.
Can a 2F block and 3F head do the trick? Or do I need to start swapping parts? I am trying to get around touching detailed parts in an engine.
Can a 2F block and 3F head do the trick? Or do I need to start swapping parts? I am trying to get around touching detailed parts in an engine.
Kinda makes one wonder why Toyota cut down the 2F block to shorten the stroke before adding EFI.
That trim widened the power band and made the engine more "driveable"... especially when mated to an auto tranny.
Obviously in the design stages, they put EFI on a 2F and didn't like the outcome. So the 3F was born.
Might be something to consider.
In Australia, 3Fs were carbureted. Toyota saw the 3F block as an improvement over the 2F and the Dyno results proved it.
I can see the logic of swapping in a 3FE head on a FJ60 2F block that is sitting in the truck.
I can't really understand the reasoning behind putting an older design, 2F block back in a FJ62 and bolting on the EFI head when using an auto tranny unless the new block can be acquired for dirt cheap. It seems like going backwards. Toyota wanted nothing to do with EFI on a 2F.
Just sayin...
That trim widened the power band and made the engine more "driveable"... especially when mated to an auto tranny.
Obviously in the design stages, they put EFI on a 2F and didn't like the outcome. So the 3F was born.
Might be something to consider.
In Australia, 3Fs were carbureted. Toyota saw the 3F block as an improvement over the 2F and the Dyno results proved it.
I can see the logic of swapping in a 3FE head on a FJ60 2F block that is sitting in the truck.
I can't really understand the reasoning behind putting an older design, 2F block back in a FJ62 and bolting on the EFI head when using an auto tranny unless the new block can be acquired for dirt cheap. It seems like going backwards. Toyota wanted nothing to do with EFI on a 2F.
Just sayin...
Lol. Build one and decide for yourself.
Randy, bolt the head on the block and go from there. As far as internals go, it's a 2f bottom end with a 3FE top end as they come from their donor engines. The pushrods cross the head gasket, so they get complicated.
Anything that takes some thought / work is outside of the cast iron.
Randy, bolt the head on the block and go from there. As far as internals go, it's a 2f bottom end with a 3FE top end as they come from their donor engines. The pushrods cross the head gasket, so they get complicated.
Anything that takes some thought / work is outside of the cast iron.
- Thread starter
- #36
I have access to a cheap fully rebuilt 2F short block. That is the only reason I am considering this build.
- Thread starter
- #37
I have three 3FE engines in my garage at the moment, none of which are in working running condition. The cheapest route is what I will take.
Option 1:
get cheap 2F short block and do the 2Fe conversion.
Option 2:
Pay a shop to rebuild one of my 3FE's and bolt it back in...
Option 1:
get cheap 2F short block and do the 2Fe conversion.
Option 2:
Pay a shop to rebuild one of my 3FE's and bolt it back in...
TrickyT
Hate that mud...
Plus machinists have told me that over time the lifters "mate" with the cam lobes. So by keeping the 2F cam and lifters (and keeping the lifters in their correct location) you won't suddenly start generating extra wear on the cam because the old 2F lifters weren't mated to the 3FE cam.
I agree with RockDoc, you're not going to see that much difference in horsepower just because of the 3FE cam.
TrickyT
Hate that mud...
I have a 3FE camshaft available.
By the time I get to the engine for my pig, I expect to have four stock cams available, though some will still be in factory cast iron shipping containers.
